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Old 07-05-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I did...in a couple of sentences. It started off wrong...so I had to address it from the start. When you figure out the sons of levi were none other than the Priestly order of the covenant, the rest of your post is meaningless to address, since it began eisegetically wrong.

Sciotamicks, I was agreeing with you about the sons of Levi. Please address the rest of my post.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,433,198 times
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Quote:
No, you foolishly think you can be compared to Jesus.
You reject the truth. I am a priest and king...you tell non priests and kings they will be saved in the end. What a shame.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:34 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
In the twentieth century universalism (apokatastasis) has been associated with the neo - orthodox theology as shaped by the Swiss theologian Karl Barth.

In modern times, eternal torment can be associated with Fred Phelps, now you may follow the guy and believe he is right, for all I know you live on his compound, but an association such as you bring has nothing to do with something being right or wrong.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:38 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,608,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR claims God cannot kill, as He is incapable of it.
Not true, I believe that God both kills and makes alive. He wounds and heals. He tears and He binds up.

You bring up the flood of Noah... but to what does God liken the waters of Noah?
  • Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

I cannot speak for all of UR only myself... But I believe without qualification that
  • whosoever believeth in Him shall not be ashamed

period. no adding... no taking away.

I refuse to add the words...
  • whosever believeth BEFORE THEY DIE shall not be ashamed

I refuse to add the words...
  • whosoever believeth in Him AFTER THEY DIE shall be damned because THEN IT'S TOO LATE

Rather, I believe that...
  • John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

And there it is in black and white: Salvation by believing in Christ after death. Now I know this is primarily referring to spiritual death, being dead in trespasses and sins. But are the grips of physical death greater than spiritual death? I think not. After all, the context is God raising Lazarus from physical death.

Again I will not limit God by rewriting in my mind...
  • he that believeth in me, though he were SPIRITUALLY dead BUT PHYSICALL ALIVE, yet shall he SPIRITUALLY live, BUT IF HE IS PHYSICALLY DEAD then it's too late, except for Lazarus.
or
  • he that believeth in me, if he were dead, THEN IT'S TOO LATE

But to each his own.

Also, it looks to me like "hadean death" if there is such a distinction... is destroyed by the second death, seeing as death and hades are cast into the lake of fire... this is the second death. Last I checked, fire destroys what is tossed into it. And "Death and Hades" sounds alot like it refer to "Hadean Death" death to me if there is such a thing.

Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 07-05-2010 at 04:53 PM..
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You reject the truth. I am a priest and king...you tell non priests and kings they will be saved in the end. What a shame.

Priests and kings who are going to do what?? Please re-read my post on the second death.

Don't you know that saints shall judge angels? Don't you know that saints shall judge the world?
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 908,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You reject the truth. I am a priest and king...you tell non priests and kings they will be saved in the end. What a shame.
Who are you a priest and king over?
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:48 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You reject the truth. I am a priest and king...you tell non priests and kings they will be saved in the end. What a shame.
You can believe your a leprechaun if you like.

I tell people what I believe to be the truth because it has made a great difference in my life. There is no shame in that and you saying there is is meaningless.

I still see no difference between you and a pharasee, what exactly is the difference, can you point this out?
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,433,198 times
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God is Self-existent, autonomous, and independent. He is not dependent or contingent on any other, and certainly not on the human creature that He created. Nothing and no one can lay claim on Godís necessary action, for there is nothing that necessitates His doing what He does, anymore than anything outside of Himself necessitates His being Who He is. Out of His own Being (ek theos), He does what He does, because He is Who He is. What He does is always His own Being in action, for He does not act instrumentally in the conveyance or dispensing of separated benefits apart from His own Being. Godís action to save mankind, for example, is not necessitated by His love, His decrees, His covenant arrangements, His relational oneness, or the incarnational involvement of the Son. His actions cannot be legitimately relegated to logical/mechanical instrumentation of necessity.

If in any manner we reason ďGod is love because He saves all men,Ē we establish Godís Being by a utilitarian process that defines God by what He does for man. This is the essence of idolatry, for idols are defined by how they serve, satisfy, and benefit man. Idols are constructed for manís well-being. We must not engage in the idolatry of making God a magical means to manís ends. Universalism often ends up being both humanistic and idolatrous as it constructs a ďgodĒ who is a universal producer of egalitarian benefits and blessings for man. The benefits and blessings are then elevated for worship, instead of worshipping and glorifying God for the worthiness of His own Being. We do not worship God for what He can do for us, but for Who He is in Himself.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,433,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Who are you a priest and king over?
Rev 1 ...read it next time you reply to me with an uneducated response.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,433,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
  • Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
Underlined for you the subject of redemption....Israel.

Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Not all.

Quote:
Also, it looks to me like "hadean death" if there is such a distinction... is destroyed by the second death, seeing as death and hades are cast into the lake of fire... this is the second death. Last I checked, fire destroys what is tossed into it. And "Death and Hades" sounds alot like it refer to "Hadean Death" death to me if there is such a thing.
You are correct in your assertion. As such will be the destiny for those outside the city gates, and for those who DO NOT walk by His light.
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