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Old 07-05-2010, 02:47 PM
 
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I posted about this in a response on another thread,but it seems worthy of it's own thread.Throughout the history of Christianity,there have been episodes of violent behavior towards people regarded as heretics.The Catholic Inquisition,the witch burnings,burnings of heretics at the stake,priests giving blankets infected with smallpox to Indians,the opposition of conservative Christianity to civil rights,Fred Phelps and the God hates f*gs crowd,Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson proclaiming horrible natural disasters to be God's judgement.The common theme in all of these is this:a belief in eternal torment.

This begs the question.Does a belief in ET allow Christians to go along and tolerate this kind of stuff?I once had a guy,an ET'er,tell me in another discussion forum that burning people at the stake wasn't such a big deal because they were going to fry in hell anyway.

On the flip side,where are all the terrible things perpetrated by the UR crowd?What about the UR side has seemingly,unless someone can show me something I've missed,prevents such behavior?Could it be seeing God as unconditional love and therefore seeing all men the way they believe God sees them?
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Old 07-05-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,115,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
I posted about this in a response on another thread,but it seems worthy of it's own thread.Throughout the history of Christianity,there have been episodes of violent behavior towards people regarded as heretics.The Catholic Inquisition,the witch burnings,burnings of heretics at the stake,priests giving blankets infected with smallpox to Indians,the opposition of conservative Christianity to civil rights,Fred Phelps and the God hates f*gs crowd,Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson proclaiming horrible natural disasters to be God's judgement.The common theme in all of these is this:a belief in eternal torment.

This begs the question.Does a belief in ET allow Christians to go along and tolerate this kind of stuff?I once had a guy,an ET'er,tell me in another discussion forum that burning people at the stake wasn't such a big deal because they were going to fry in hell anyway.

On the flip side,where are all the terrible things perpetrated by the UR crowd?What about the UR side has seemingly,unless someone can show me something I've missed,prevents such behavior?Could it be seeing God as unconditional love and therefore seeing all men the way they believe God sees them?
Some people are just authoritarian in nature and they gravitate to the extreme in what ever they are into, either politics or religion.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:08 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
I posted about this in a response on another thread,but it seems worthy of it's own thread.Throughout the history of Christianity,there have been episodes of violent behavior towards people regarded as heretics.The Catholic Inquisition,the witch burnings,burnings of heretics at the stake,priests giving blankets infected with smallpox to Indians,the opposition of conservative Christianity to civil rights,Fred Phelps and the God hates f*gs crowd,Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson proclaiming horrible natural disasters to be God's judgement.The common theme in all of these is this:a belief in eternal torment.

This begs the question.Does a belief in ET allow Christians to go along and tolerate this kind of stuff?I once had a guy,an ET'er,tell me in another discussion forum that burning people at the stake wasn't such a big deal because they were going to fry in hell anyway.

On the flip side,where are all the terrible things perpetrated by the UR crowd?What about the UR side has seemingly,unless someone can show me something I've missed,prevents such behavior?Could it be seeing God as unconditional love and therefore seeing all men the way they believe God sees them?

That is a good question ...

Where are all the war mongers and murderers and war criminals and religious leaders throughout the last 2000 years who were Christian Universalists?

You know a tree by its fruit.

If Christian Universalism is, like many have claimed on this forum, such an evil doctrine and those who believe in it are so deceived and spiritually blind, then why don't we see Christian universalists throughout the last 2000 years who committed heinous crimes against humanity?

We have countless examples of Christian ET'ers who were war criminals, war mongers, mass-murderers, torturers ... etc ...

Just one example, Vlad III(Vlad Dracula - the Impaler), Prince of Wallachia ... This man was one of the greatest mass murderers of all time, who murdered and tortured countless of his own people by impaling them throughout his lands, including women and children. He was defended by the Church as a defender of the faith, and a champion of Christ against the Islamic hordes of the ottoman empire ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-05-2010 at 04:24 PM..
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post

On the flip side,where are all the terrible things perpetrated by the UR crowd?
Lies that lead people to Hell. That's is one of the biggest ones I can think of.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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While I see where these thoughts come from, and I am convinced of UR, I don't see that this could be construed as proof that that CU/UR is the correct outlook, imho.

Could be that folks who are naturally a bit more on the pacifist side gravitate toward this outlook. Also doesn't Buddhism and certain other religions mostly of a passive nature? Certainly all these philosophies and teachings can lead anyone to a more peaceful way of life, within and without, but I don't see it as certain proof. Plus, not many in history have openly declared their view on this and there have been few who openly espouse universal reconciliation, so it would be difficult to prove one way or the other.

Just an opinion.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Lies that lead people to Hell. That's is one of the biggest ones I can think of.

According to your religion(To fundamentalist Muslims you are guilty of the crime of sending people to hell for teaching what they believe to be your false religion), but what of the crimes that are obvious to people of all religions, like mass murder and war and torture etc ... ?

Where are all the evil Christian Universalist dictators?
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:31 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,414,155 times
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
That is a good question ...

Where are all the war mongers and murderers and war criminals and religious leaders throughout the last 2000 years who were Christian Universalists?

You know a tree by its fruit.

If Christian Universalism is, like many have claimed on this forum, such an evil doctrine and those who believe in it are so deceived and spiritually blind, then why don't we see Christian universalists throughout the last 2000 years who committed heinous crimes against humanity?

We have countless examples of Christian ET'ers who were war criminals, war mongers, mass-murderers, torturers ... etc ...
Universal Reconciliation is an "IDEALIST" view of creation which is good thing but...lest we forget that in scripture, this were not so...there were/are/will be those who would "knowingly" defy GOD and deceive humanity.

I don't believe in "burn in hell" doctrine...for it goes against the nature of the creator...yet, I believe that those who have grievously sinned will perish in the second death. Hitler died and will remain dead...but the spirit who moved him is something to ponder upon...

I'm caught between the rock and a hard place...

Peace!

Last edited by ans57; 07-05-2010 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,905 posts, read 8,476,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
That is a good question ...

Where are all the war mongers and murderers and war criminals and religious leaders throughout the last 2000 years who were Christian Universalists?

You know a tree by its fruit.

If Christian Universalism is, like many have claimed on this forum, such an evil doctrine and those who believe in it are so deceived and spiritually blind, then why don't we see Christian universalists throughout the last 2000 years who committed heinous crimes against humanity?

We have countless examples of Christian ET'ers who were war criminals, war mongers, mass-murderers, torturers ... etc ...

Just one example, Vlad III(Vlad Dracula - the Impaler), Prince of Wallachia ... This man was one of the greatest mass murderers of all time, who murdered and tortured countless of his own people by impaling them throughout his lands, including women and children. He was defended by the Church as a defender of the faith, and a champion of Christ against the Islamic hordes of the ottoman empire ...
You sound just like the atheists who find that Christianity is the cause of all sorts of evil. Nice club to be a part of.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
You sound just like the atheists who find that Christianity is the cause of all sorts of evil. Nice club to be a part of.
Christianity is NOT the cause of evil. But men who claimed to operate under the banner of Christianity CERTAINLY HAVE perpetrated some of the most evil, vile and heinous atrocities against their fellow human. I don't know how they could, but it is part of recorded history.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
You sound just like the atheists who find that Christianity is the cause of all sorts of evil. Nice club to be a part of.
Im not an atheist, i am Christian. I am honestly asking those who believe that Christian Universalism is so evil and that the people who believe it are so deceived by Satan and are in fact wolves in sheep's clothing ... were are all the evil christian universalist dictators and war mongers and mass murderers?

Christianity in its original form was never responsible for the evil things that were done in the name of Christ after the doctrine of ET was made the orthodox doctrine of the church and after Christianity became the state religion of Rome and transformed into a Theocracy.

Come at me any way you wish, demonize me however you will, but anyone who studies the history of the church can seen plain as day that all the evil done in the name of Christ was done by men and women who believed in ET, and not by men and women who were Christian Universalist.


You know a tree by its fruit ...

The doctrine of ET rationally supports torture and murder of unbelievers and whomever the church deems to be Heretics. And the stance of the Church on this issue during the past 1700 years is plain as day.

However the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation does not and cannot rationally support the murder and torture of anyone period.


Both doctrines lead to and amount to one of two groups of things ...

Tolerance, compassion, mercy and life ...


Or prejudice, hate, torture and death ...



Can you tell which is which?
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