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Old 07-06-2010, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Where does it say, in scripture, that you only have up until you die to RECEIVE mercy from your creator?

If your existence goes beyond that, why does God's mercy stop at physical death..

"Your mercy endures forever" isn't really forever, is it?
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,261,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Where does it say, in scripture, that you only have up until you die to RECEIVE mercy from your creator?

If your existence goes beyond that, why does God's mercy stop at physical death..

"Your mercy endures forever" isn't really forever, is it?
This is just one of the more profound contradictions to be found in the book...and it surely does make some squirm.

It will be very interesting to see how the "apologists" squirm their way out of this one.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
This is just one of the more profound contradictions to be found in the book...and it surely does make some squirm.

It will be very interesting to see how the "apologists" squirm their way out of this one.
I predict not many will try. Some may say that some people (the wicked) don't exist after death but even that holds little water when looking at scripture..

We will see....
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,221 times
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1 Corithians 15 among others.....
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:12 PM
 
51 posts, read 56,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Where does it say, in scripture, that you only have up until you die to RECEIVE mercy from your creator?

If your existence goes beyond that, why does God's mercy stop at physical death..

"Your mercy endures forever" isn't really forever, is it?
katjonjj,

God's greatest mercy is given in the judgment, where as we confess that God is true and every man is a liar, we will overcome as we are judged.

It is appointed unto man once to die, after that the judgment.

Rom 3:3-6
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? KJV

Heb 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: KJV

Through Moses' song we see that we are liars. Through the song of the Lamb we are given confidence and assurance in God's mercy.

Rev 15:3-5
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: KJV

Eojj
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
1 Corithians 15 among others.....

Sure



1C 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

There is hope after death.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
1 Corithians 15 among others.....
For those of you who are not familiar with 1 Cor 15 and don't feel like looking it up, I'll paste it below so you can see for yourself that it says no such thing. Notice that death does NOT have the victory as many people preach.

1 Corinthians 15


1And I make known to you, brethren, the good news that I proclaimed to you, which also ye did receive, in which also ye have stood,
2through which also ye are being saved, in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain,
3for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings,
4and that he was buried, and that he hath risen on the third day, according to the Writings,
5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve,
6afterwards he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain till now, and certain also did fall asleep;
7afterwards he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
8And last of all -- as to the untimely birth -- he appeared also to me,
9for I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I did persecute the assembly of God,
10and by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace that [is] towards me came not in vain, but more abundantly than they all did I labour, yet not I, but the grace of God that [is] with me;
11whether, then, I or they, so we preach, and so ye did believe.
12And if Christ is preached, that out of the dead he hath risen, how say certain among you, that there is no rising again of dead persons?
13and if there be no rising again of dead persons, neither hath Christ risen;
14and if Christ hath not risen, then void [is] our preaching, and void also your faith,
15and we also are found false witnesses of God, because we did testify of God that He raised up the Christ, whom He did not raise if then dead persons do not rise;
16for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen,
17and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;
18then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish;
19if in this life we have hope in Christ only, of all men we are most to be pitied.
20And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
21for since through man [is] the death, also through man [is] a rising again of the dead,
22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
24then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
26the last enemy is done away -- death;
27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
28and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
29Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead?
30why also do we stand in peril every hour?
31Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord:
32if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise? let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die!
33Be not led astray; evil communications corrupt good manners;
34awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say [it].
35But some one will say, `How do the dead rise?
36unwise! thou -- what thou dost sow is not quickened except it may die;
37and that which thou dost sow, not the body that shall be dost thou sow, but bare grain, it may be of wheat, or of some one of the others,
38and God doth give to it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its proper body.
39All flesh [is] not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another of fishes, and another of birds;
40and [there are] heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one [is] the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly;
41one glory of sun, and another glory of moon, and another glory of stars, for star from star doth differ in glory.
42So also [is] the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
43it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
45so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit,
46but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual.
47The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven;
48as [is] the earthy, such [are] also the earthy; and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] also the heavenly;
49and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;
51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:
53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;
55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
56and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
57and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ; 58so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.
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Old 07-06-2010, 05:52 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 770,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
1 Corithians 15 among others.....
Thats the best you got?

Why do you insist a loving and perfect God would doom 4/5 of mankind forever?

Does God love the unsaved? yes?

Would not His heart break each time He threw someone into an eternal hell? What kind of God could even dream that scenario up? Wouldn't He be miserable as well?
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Old 07-06-2010, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Thats the best you got?
Do you want more? Shall we have another lesson in death?

Quote:
Why do you insist a loving and perfect God would doom 4/5 of mankind forever?
He is just. Well deserved for rejecting Him. None are without excuse.

Quote:
Does God love the unsaved? yes?
Yes, I was once that. He chose me for His work. As He chosses others.
And He doesn't choose some as well.

Quote:
Would not His heart break each time He threw someone into an eternal hell?
More so it breaks His heart when they reject His Son. The punishment is well desreved.

Quote:
What kind of God could even dream that scenario up? Wouldn't He be miserable as well?
Start with Genesis 1. End with Revelaiton 22.

You put your self in the same shoes, you apply the same heart as you have......with God's. That is where you error.

His love, His thoughts, His counsel, His providence, are unsearchable.
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Old 07-06-2010, 06:38 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 770,393 times
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Quote:
His love, His thoughts, His counsel, His providence, are unsearchable.

Please , don't insult me by mentioning His love. Love? You call that love? Damning almost everyone to death or torment?

Do you even know the true meaning? Love is patient, kind and long suffering, but according to you, God's patience expires the moment we die. You really don't know the heart of God.

Plus, why would He choose not to save some when He is perfectly able?
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