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Old 07-07-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Did God "offer" being born in Adam?

Blessings,
brian
No we already have that. But He offered Christ to redeem that.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:51 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,633,926 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The consequences of sin are juridically decreed after this life. yes i pay for them physically and emotionally now, but by the blood of Christ, God sees no sin in me, each time I confess them to him. There is no trial by fire after I die.



Now yes, but after I die. No.



Does God desire THELO for you not to sin, does He not want THELO you to sin?

But you do. You usurp His wants, desire and will.

UR is false.
sciota, the point here is that even though Christ paid for the sin of all, believers still sin, still reap what they sow, and still need to be made righteous so they won't sin. Same thing for unbelievers. It is not a double payment for sin as your OP suggests. That is the logical fallacy of your OP.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,302,437 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post

I do believe that we don't see true life until we are made alive by the spirit, but we definitely don't become good automatically, by imputation we are righteous in God's sight, but experientially, I believe we are not made good without refining and correction, even Christ had to suffer and then there's the experiences of Job, Joseph, David, Abraham, Jacob, etc. The elect experience their refining in this age, then the following ages deal with the rest, how many ages, I don't know, but I definitely look forward to the Tabernacles age.
I've heard some preaching on Tabernacles. I'd love to hear more from anyone here on this subject; maybe a new thread?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Indeed. Funny Romans 5:12 is mentioned, but apparently the rest of Romans 5 doesn't have a salvation context?

Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

sciotamicks, I truly wish you could see this. But for whatever reason, you are not meant to see it right now. Maybe tomorrow, God willing.
You are wrong. It does.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
sciota, the point here is that even though Christ paid for the sin of all, believers still sin, still reap what they sow, and still need to be made righteous so they won't sin. Same thing for unbelievers. It is not a double payment for sin as your OP suggests. That is the logical fallacy of your OP.
The point of the OP has nothing to do with what you present. It has everything to do with the reward or penalty of faith and sin in the afterlife.

Good grief....why do you people always try to spin the OP?
Stick with the question.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:56 PM
 
40,286 posts, read 26,858,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You know nothing of UR's history do you?
Pot . . . kettle!!!
Quote:
Sciotamicks - Jesus already saved the world, and that world is those who put their faith in Him.
If He MEANT only BELIEVERS . . . He would have SAID so .. . . NOT used the obviously more inclusive "World!!" that requires your sophistry and deception to limit to believers.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,302,437 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No we already have that. But He offered Christ to redeem that.
Yes, I know. The point of asking this is: if God is just, and if He loves His creatures even more than we are able to love each other, then why would He "obligate" us to be sinners, but being saints is only a "choice?" (And an "act now, supplies are limited!"-type choice, I might add..!)

(Obviously, free will has nothing to do with it, since He could have made us all "saints," and let us choose to fall. But He didn't.)

So what is "holy" or "righteous" or "just" about putting everybody in sin? What is His reason?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
593 posts, read 652,537 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, I have read it. As you can clearly see from your own quotes as well as from mine, salvation is not unconditional. You say "EVERYONE who loves has been born of God and knows God", so that excludes those who don't love.
Amen! Amen!
Thank you Lord!
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
But then again... where is your "God chooses who is saved" doctrine? If God does all the choosing does he hold it against someone who is witnessed to falsely? How does that fit in with your many beliefs about God and what God wills?

Digging in deeper I see.. If someone can't cause another to be saved then they surely can't prevent them from being saved either!

LOL...kat..you re the queen of spin...I will give you that.
God provided the doctrine of salvation for those who respond to it and receive it by an act of free will. That free will is a responsibility to His calling.

It's called a relationship.
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,446,688 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
If that were true, there would not be over 30,000 different Christian denominations.
Aren't there? Just Kidding. What I said in layman's terms is that all denominations agree that one must confess in Christ is this life to be saved from eternal death. UR goes against that grain.
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