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Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteousin his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Romans 3: 21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christto all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifiesthose who havefaith in Jesus. One has to have faith in Christ and all He has done on the cross. And we know not everyone believes (trusts) in Christ, that their sins have been paid for. Many do not and will not believe they need saving. Christ is a myth to many. Proof?? Look at the world, look at this board, they do not care, we are few. The love of God is not in their hearts. So we preach and pray and only God knows whether they will recieve his free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. We are judged by faith in Christ. The ones who have sinned and do not believe will be judged by the law. The same as before Christ and we know what happened to many of them. Also we reap what we sow, however God is merciful and we as believers in Christ are under that mercy, non-believers are under God's wrath. And the Lord knows the heart, whether the sin of the believer is intentional or unintentional and this does make a difference to God as far as discipline and punishment here on earth. We also know as believers, God's discipline and punishment is for our good, to build faith and perseverance in Christ, working out our salvation. The refiner's fire in the believer is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers are under God's wrath and are not clothed with the Spirit. And we do know at the wedding banquet what happen to the one who was not wearing wedding clothes. I myself do believe in the lake of fire for those who do not believe in Christ, not that I desire this for anyone, never. However I do believe if we preach and pray for others, God will answer my prayer for them to recieve Jesus into their heart. Also I have seen and heard blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and seen gnashing of teeth and hate for God and morned for their souls and felt like Paul when he spoke about giving up his own salvation, so others could be saved. God does not allow because he declared we each are accountable for our own sins done in the body. This is it, we are accountable what we do against God. Whether hurting others or ourselves or just Him. Either one is under God's mercy through faith in Christ or God's wrath. I would not want this soul under God's wrath when I leave this earth.
Why are you getting aggressive? I am not misrepresenting anything.
So, are you saying if a person loves someone one time, then he us saved? If Hitler loved his mother when he was a kid, then does that mean God saved him?
I am not getting aggressive... LOL I am in a great mood today!
BINGO!
If LOVE is of GOD and Hitler LOVED then HITLER is of God...
It's very simple. 1 John 4 states that Love is of God and EVERYONE who loves is born of God.
Who does that leave out?
Hitler not only loved his mother but loved his wife and kids... he loved himself... Just didn't care for opposition to his world domination.
Misguided perhaps, but still loved so according to scripture he is "born of God."
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If that was the case, then yes, everyone has loved, but if you think that means everyone is saved you are way off the mark.
HUH?
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
Well, I hate to get into this thread again because I honestly think some people just enjoy arguing as a pass time, not because they are actually interested in the well being of others.... however, your last post reminded me of the scripture that says OVERCOMERS will not be HURT of the 2nd DEATH which is the LAKE OF FIRE. Jesus spoke of wicked servants who did not take him seriously. I think those wicked servants are believers and that is why he will have to say, "Depart from me, into the lake of fire, I never knew you...." I think that is talking about the judgment that awaits those who have not endeavored to become pure in heart by sincerely following after Christ and taking his words to heart. The wicked servants were found to be beating others! Anyway, carry on....
Heartsong
Yes... I wish I could rep you but.... I am all out!
Here's another way to look at things, in case the word "world" should not be clear to anyone:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
How many of Adam's offspring were made "sinners?" A few? A special group? Many? ALL?
Blessings, and good night to all (yes, it's night where I am!),
brian
I am not getting aggressive... LOL I am in a great mood today!
BINGO!
If LOVE is of GOD and Hitler LOVED then HITLER is of God...
It's very simple. 1 John 4 states that Love is of God and EVERYONE who loves is born of God.
Who does that leave out?
Hitler not only loved his mother but loved his wife and kids... he loved himself... Just didn't care for opposition to his world domination.
Misguided perhaps, but still loved so according to scripture he is "born of God."
What does it leave out? It leaves out the core message of Jesus Christ. You know, like John 3:16 and nearly 200 other verses in the Bible which state that a person is saved only through faith in Jesus. Like I said earlier that if you believe that loving your mother means God saves you then you are way off the mark, and you just proved it.
Hitler did not have kids, and he murdered his wife, and then he killed himself, and before that he had six milliond people to be murdered and some 30 million others died as result of his actions. So, when you say "HITLER is of God", then you only prove how lost you really are.
John 8:39-45
"Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." 42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
And Hitler belonged to the devil just like the pharisees did. No my friend, not everyone is saved, and the pharisees and Hitler are just a few examples of people who were not saved.
You can't sow a dead body and receive a new body. In 1 Cor 15, paul is talking about the same body. We put this body to DEATH WITH HIM, and are raised to LIFE WITH HIM.
I agree with some of what you are saying but the second death is still death and Jesus overcomes death.......... You seem to think that there is some death that Jesus does not overcome you seem to be adding words like believer, types, etc into places to make passages fit your doctrines, whether they be calvinistic, preterist, etc.
It is about the seed that is sown
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
To me you seem to be saying that there is a separation between the flesh and soul and spirit except at times you seem to think that the spirit is dead
What I see in scripture is the body (soma) is the spirit breath of life (pneuma) which animates the flesh (sarx) and produces soul (psuche)
The seed that is sown in corruption is the whole natural (soma) body that we all have in Adam which is corrupt, and unless it all dies it is not raised quickened.........
In Christ is resurrection - there is no resurrection outside of Christ - The second death destroys the natural adamic body....
What does it leave out? It leaves out the core message of Jesus Christ. You know, like John 3:16 and nearly 200 other verses in the Bible which state that a person is saved only through faith in Jesus. Like I said earlier that if you believe that loving your mother means God saves you then you are way off the mark, and you just proved it.
Loving your mother is exactly what Jesus taught. Love your mother, brothers, sisters... neighbors, strangers, enemies...
Hitler was a bad guy... but the worse the sinner the more glory God gets for saving him. Faith has no merit. I can have faith that the sky will turn orange but that doesn't make the sky orange...
I can believe anything but that doesn't change the truth.
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Hitler did not have kids, and he murdered his wife, and then he killed himself, and before that he had six milliond people to be murdered and some 30 million others died as result of his actions. So, when you say "HITLER is of God", then you only prove how lost you really are.
I knew that would bug you!
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John 8:39-45
"Abraham is our father," they answered.
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." 42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
And Hitler belonged to the devil just like the pharisees did. No my friend, not everyone is saved, and the pharisees and Hitler are just a few examples of people who were not saved.
Simply because you believe something doesn't make it true. You are saying that God requires people to believe what he has already accomplished. I am saying that a person need not believe the truth (all are saved) in order for it to be true.
You are talking about two groups of people... before 70AD and after. You do realize that Jesus came for Israel yet it affected the whole world.
You do realize that Hitler killed himself (even though he was a Catholic) because he thought humans would be harder on him then God.... and we would have been.
In part I am messing with you and in part I am being ultra frank.
IMO everyone is capable of love and is loved by God...
Even Hitler.
And I would think that you would be better at defending the doctrine of evil (eternal torture) than you are here in this thread.
Hitler was a bad guy... but the worse the sinner the more glory God gets for saving him. Faith has no merit.
I see. The more you kill, the more you glorify God.
And faith has no merit....
OK, I think we're done here.
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And I would think that you would be better at defending the doctrine of evil (eternal torture) than you are here in this thread
And since you think the message of Jesus Christ is the doctrine of evil, I think it's better if we are done for good.
I took a few days off from here and when I came back and read all the anti-Christian UR ramblings here, I felt oppressed by it. The feeling was the opposite of the feeling of joy I feel in presence of the Holy Spirit.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-07-2010 at 05:37 PM..
I see. The more you kill, the more you glorify God.
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? May it never be.
Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness demonstratesthe righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)
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And faith has no merit....
I know a girl who has faith that she will win every time she goes to the casino. She believes that if she has enough faith then the outcome of her trip there will be changed. Does faith influence the outcome of anything? NOPE!
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OK, I think we're done here.
Agree to disagree? Okay I accept.
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And since you think the message of Jesus Christ is the doctrine of evil, I think it's better if we are done for good.
The message of Christ was to 'love God and your neighbor as yourself'.... unfortunately you seem to think it is believe or be fried.
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I took a few days off from here and when I came back and read all the anti-Christian UR ramblings here, I felt oppressed by it. The feeling was the opposite of the feeling of joy I feel in presence of the Holy Spirit.
I am sorry you feel that way. Agree to disagree... sure.
but didn't you just say that all men are already dead... they are born dead?? So the second death is the same as the state they were already in?
No. The first death is in Adam, the second spiritual death, is the rejection of Christ. Both juridical. Sin nature is in our flesh, our members, and once that has expired, you are left with no body if you are without Christ. And then....the spirit dies...in the second death.
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So they start out dead then they remain dead? A continuous state of being doesn't need to be termed "second" does it?
Something is wrong with what you are saying.
According to the scriptures, it is a second death isn't it? Yes we start out dead, while living and breathing...a fallen state of SIN nature, and finally, after a life of no response to the gospel, we die eternally.
Is this so hard? Forgive me, but it appears you are having a hard time accepting the plain reading of the text and its context.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 07-08-2010 at 02:32 AM..
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