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Old 07-08-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,294 posts, read 671,802 times
Reputation: 459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I still have not seen anything scriptrurally that ties this Lake of Fire redemptive work for the wicked or righteous post mortem?
Can anyone provide a simplistic exegesis on this?

Please?
To be honest with you Sciotamicks with the way that you have scripture conforming to your theology e.g 4 "types" of death, where death is mentioned and life is mentioned you will explain away scripture based on your interpretation of what type of death and life and resurrection is being talked about........ It is very hard to talk to you as you do not admit to this but you have scripture totally molded to fit your interpretations - you do not seem to be open to learning, you seem to believe that you have the fulness of truth in full preterism and full calvinism ..... the same thing that you accuse others of you do but are not aware of it..........

In my previous post to heartsong I mentioned that the first resurrection is tied to the second death -- those in the first resurrection are not held by the second death but we also see that the dead that are not in the first resurrection live again and it is related to the second death......... Those that believe in ET think that there is resurrection before being cast into the lake of fire and eternally tormented there, but we are not told that there is resurrection before the judgment of second death --- I believe that the second death is the judgment and resurrection happens at the time of second death -- what is sown is not raised unless it dies.........
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:42 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,585,746 times
Reputation: 5149
Remember this saying always: "The noisiest drum has nothing in it but.....AIR!
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,328 posts, read 34,509,231 times
Reputation: 10559
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Of course he did, Kat . . . but what he says does NOT apply to those (like him and Verna) who speak the TRUTH.
Would you mind showing me where I said that. Thanks.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,294 posts, read 671,802 times
Reputation: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
meerkat,

I commend your diligent study, and you are always open to debate and a change of view. I, at this time in my walk, am not, and I am not open to any view but the one I have adopted in the recent years...Calvinism and Full Preterism. It makes sense, and completes what I always believed to be true.
Sciotamicks thanks!! I do try to have an open mind but I also am seeking what is true -- I personally I do not see that the total truth is in the "doctrines" that have evolved ie preterism, futurism, ET, annhiliation, ur, calvinism all of these seem to be labels for parts of the truth that is in the scriptures. I am not knocking your faith just explaining how I see it

I do believe that all is finally reconciled to God and we also can not overlook Gods judgments --- believer and unbeliever alike, we will all answer to God through Christ.........
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,447,957 times
Reputation: 420
meerkat,

AS you have heard time and time again is that I say I am a Calvinist and Full Preterist. Two doctrines, in writing, that argue with each other on various points. I have found, by my own awakening to Fuliflled Prophecy, which is what I adopted before I even knew what a Preterist was LOL!!!

So it is very difficult for me to hear people like yourself claim I have conformed the scriptures to my doctrine, ads they both don't agree with each other in many ways, but I have found before I even adopted the two, that I was the TWO! So I took them on as my own.

So your argument against me, is null and void in my mind, as it appears to not have any foundation whatsoever. So be it!!

You see, what I ask here, is simple, laid out verses that deal with the Lake of Fire/post mortem redemptive work for the wicked, and as UR claims, for the righteous as well....a concept that is IMO far from the pages of the Bible, so that the forum, and myself, since this is a thread I started, and which I hoped would come to fruition on UR's part. A couple of you have posted one or two verses, and IMO, elaborate eisegetical claims via xxtra Biblical assertions and secular philosophies, that exist nowhere in the scriptures. The culture of the Jewish listeners most profoundly, and Jewish apostles attempting brought that very JEWISH minded theology, to the Greeks.

Paul claimed that the Greeks too were TRUE Israelites, so we must immediately infer, that the message is going to be laden with Jewish, heavy Jewish overtones of their culture and theology.

Please...all I ask is for a laid verse by verse outline...you don't even have to exegete it!!!!
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:12 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,775,869 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Please...all I ask is for a laid verse by verse outline...you don't even have to exegete it!!!!
That would be nice if God saw fit to hand us the bible with a verse by verse outline that shows us the future, but He didn't. IMO, He doesn't want us to know all the mysteries or He would have just laid it right out there. This is where faith comes in. Whether you want to admit it or not, there's an enormous amount of scriptures that explain UR, and you even said you considered it once, I believe. On the other hand, there are verses that point to a real hell, but those are symbolism and prophecies IMO, which are open to interpretation.

That's where faith comes in, and leading by the Holy Spirit. You have to decide in your own heart whether you have faith and hope that God is love and that He can and will save all the people He created, or whether you have faith and hope that even though God is love, that "just" and "holy" are in conflict with that, and God will either torture or exterminate most of the people He created. It's not up to me to try to change your mind and it sounds like it's made up anyway. As long as you are at peace with your belief, it's not going to change, and neither is mine because I'm totally at peace with it.

God is not only Love but He is also our Hope, and "hope does not disappoint!"

Psalm 46:1
God is our hope and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

I don't need a verse by verse outline explaining to me what will happen after death. It does not say "People are corrected after death," no more than it says, "People are never forgiven after death." You just have to decide what you believe by seeking Him with your whole heart - not just your head. My faith is in Love and Hope! And not only do I believe God will save all, but I hope it!

Peace to you.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,695,749 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
meerkat,

AS you have heard time and time again is that I say I am a Calvinist and Full Preterist. Two doctrines, in writing, that argue with each other on various points. I have found, by my own awakening to Fuliflled Prophecy, which is what I adopted before I even knew what a Preterist was LOL!!!

So it is very difficult for me to hear people like yourself claim I have conformed the scriptures to my doctrine, ads they both don't agree with each other in many ways, but I have found before I even adopted the two, that I was the TWO! So I took them on as my own.
Huh... Weird cuz I was labeled UR and Preterist even before I knew what they were... funny how that happens.

Quote:
You see, what I ask here, is simple, laid out verses that deal with the Lake of Fire/post mortem redemptive work for the wicked,
HA! Yet you can't find any post mortem anything so you both lose by default.

What part of scripture deals with the afterlife...(postmortem) ????

Strawman argument at its best.

Quote:
Please...all I ask is for a laid verse by verse outline...you don't even have to exegete it!!!!
I've told you before that exegete is a noun meaning " a person skilled in exegesis"... it really bugs me when you use it as a verb. There is no verb form of the word...

You can simply say analysis or something...

I had a really tough english teacher and she would not permit it, red-headed Irish woman that she was.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,695,749 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That would be nice if God saw fit to hand us the bible with a verse by verse outline that shows us the future, but He didn't. IMO, He doesn't want us to know all the mysteries or He would have just laid it right out there. This is where faith comes in. Whether you want to admit it or not, there's an enormous amount of scriptures that explain UR, and you even said you considered it once, I believe. On the other hand, there are verses that point to a real hell, but those are symbolism and prophecies IMO, which are open to interpretation.

That's where faith comes in, and leading by the Holy Spirit. You have to decide in your own heart whether you have faith and hope that God is love and that He can and will save all the people He created, or whether you have faith and hope that even though God is love, that "just" and "holy" are in conflict with that, and God will either torture or exterminate most of the people He created. It's not up to me to try to change your mind and it sounds like it's made up anyway. As long as you are at peace with your belief, it's not going to change, and neither is mine because I'm totally at peace with it.

God is not only Love but He is also our Hope, and "hope does not disappoint!"

Psalm 46:1
God is our hope and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

I don't need a verse by verse outline explaining to me what will happen after death. It does not say "People are corrected after death," no more than it says, "People are never forgiven after death." You just have to decide what you believe by seeking Him with your whole heart - not just your head. My faith is in Love and Hope! And not only do I believe God will save all, but I hope it!

Peace to you.
Spot on sista...
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 911,301 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That would be nice if God saw fit to hand us the bible with a verse by verse outline that shows us the future, but He didn't. IMO, He doesn't want us to know all the mysteries or He would have just laid it right out there. This is where faith comes in. Whether you want to admit it or not, there's an enormous amount of scriptures that explain UR, and you even said you considered it once, I believe. On the other hand, there are verses that point to a real hell, but those are symbolism and prophecies IMO, which are open to interpretation.

That's where faith comes in, and leading by the Holy Spirit. You have to decide in your own heart whether you have faith and hope that God is love and that He can and will save all the people He created, or whether you have faith and hope that even though God is love, that "just" and "holy" are in conflict with that, and God will either torture or exterminate most of the people He created. It's not up to me to try to change your mind and it sounds like it's made up anyway. As long as you are at peace with your belief, it's not going to change, and neither is mine because I'm totally at peace with it.

God is not only Love but He is also our Hope, and "hope does not disappoint!"

Psalm 46:1
God is our hope and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

I don't need a verse by verse outline explaining to me what will happen after death. It does not say "People are corrected after death," no more than it says, "People are never forgiven after death." You just have to decide what you believe by seeking Him with your whole heart - not just your head. My faith is in Love and Hope! And not only do I believe God will save all, but I hope it!

Peace to you.
Awesome
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,303,772 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That would be nice if God saw fit to hand us the bible with a verse by verse outline that shows us the future, but He didn't. IMO, He doesn't want us to know all the mysteries or He would have just laid it right out there. This is where faith comes in. Whether you want to admit it or not, there's an enormous amount of scriptures that explain UR, and you even said you considered it once, I believe. On the other hand, there are verses that point to a real hell, but those are symbolism and prophecies IMO, which are open to interpretation.

That's where faith comes in, and leading by the Holy Spirit. You have to decide in your own heart whether you have faith and hope that God is love and that He can and will save all the people He created, or whether you have faith and hope that even though God is love, that "just" and "holy" are in conflict with that, and God will either torture or exterminate most of the people He created. It's not up to me to try to change your mind and it sounds like it's made up anyway. As long as you are at peace with your belief, it's not going to change, and neither is mine because I'm totally at peace with it.

God is not only Love but He is also our Hope, and "hope does not disappoint!"

Psalm 46:1
God is our hope and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

I don't need a verse by verse outline explaining to me what will happen after death. It does not say "People are corrected after death," no more than it says, "People are never forgiven after death." You just have to decide what you believe by seeking Him with your whole heart - not just your head. My faith is in Love and Hope! And not only do I believe God will save all, but I hope it!

Peace to you.
This should be posted all over the Internet-universe!!

Blessings,
brian
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