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Old 07-09-2010, 07:50 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,633,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Here word for word : I don't need a verse by verse outline explaining to me what will happen after death. It does not say "People are corrected after death"
Maybe you should actually QUOTE THE WHOLE SENTENCE!

It does not say "People are corrected after death," no more than it says, "People are never forgiven after death."


You plainly misrepresent people Finn, and then accuse others of doing it to you.

What she was talking about was the bible does not say it in those specific words "People are corrected after death", but it does say it in many other ways, especially when we see the purpose of God's judgments, what His character is, and how He deals with people.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, not "people", but BELIEVERS who build on foundation of God. He is talking about believers works being tested in fire to see if they deserve a reward, or just eternal life. Eternal life is given to everyone who is a believer, but if your works pleased God, then you can receive rewards. There is no such test for unbelievers, because they receive neither reward, nor eternal life.

You are presenting scriptures completely out of context.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
What are you talking about "out of context"? That is simply a catch phrase to say "your wrong and I'm right". Maybe you are out of context!

If you read my post, the point is to say that God uses fire to refine people. Yes believers. And yes unbelievers. The point is to show what spiritual fire does, which is what the lake of fire is.

But IIRC you believe the lake of fire is a literal lake of physical fire right? Am I remembering correctly? There are too many inconsistencies and contradictions to go through if you think the lake of fire is physical - so we should clarify that first.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
You plainly misrepresent people Finn, and then accuse others of doing it to you.
Sorry, but I accused no one of anything, but this is the 2nd time you do it to me in as many posts.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
What are you talking about "out of context"? That is simply a catch phrase to say "your wrong and I'm right". Maybe you are out of context!
It is out of context when you present it as if it refers to all people, but when you read the whole chapter, it clearly talks about the works of believers.

Quote:
But IIRC you believe the lake of fire is a literal lake of physical fire right? Am I remembering correctly? There are too many inconsistencies and contradictions to go through if you think the lake of fire is physical - so we should clarify that first.
No, in this context it is not talking about lake of fire, it talks about God testing the works of believers.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is out of context when you present it as if it refers to all people, but when you read the whole chapter, it clearly talks about the works of believers.
Then you didn't read or understand my post. The point wasn't that 1 Cor 3 was referring to all people (although it could be). I said it was an example of how God refines people with fire - not to mention all the other scriptural examples of spiritual fire I gave - none of which you have addressed.

Quote:
No, in this context it is not talking about lake of fire, it talks about God testing the works of believers.
I was asking if you thought the lake of fire was physical fire? I couldn't remember what you had said you believed.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The point wasn't that 1 Cor 3 was referring to all people (although it could be). I said it was an example of how God refines people with fire
Again, you used the verse out of context to make a point that God refines people with fire, but 1 Cor 3 is NOT about refining "people" with fire. It is about God testing theworks of believers. It is not about refining people.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:46 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,633,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Again, you used the verse out of context to make a point that God refines people with fire, but 1 Cor 3 is NOT about refining "people" with fire. It is about God testing theworks of believers. It is not about refining people.
Finn, this may be a newsflash to you. Believers are PEOPLE.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Finn, this may be a newsflash to you. Believers are PEOPLE.

Soylent Green is peeeeeoooopppple
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,294 posts, read 34,497,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Finn, this may be a newsflash to you. Believers are PEOPLE.
Ah, the game playing begins. It is obviously not sinking in, so I'll let it go. Just read the verses and give it time to sink in. Pay special attention to this verse "It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward"
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:10 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,633,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Ah, the game playing begins. It is obviously not sinking in, so I'll let it go. Just read the verses and give it time to sink in. Pay special attention to this verse "It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward"
"game playing"? You are the one who is hung up on the word "people", and haven't even addressed the point of the post. Now here is the entire post again; if anyone has a better rebuttal than "believers not people", please feel free to raise your point, after you have read the post. God refines people through spiritual fire:


The Refining Fires of God

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Malachi 3:2 But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

1 Cor 3
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rev 20
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So here we see several examples of what the fire of God does.

- It refines like a refiner's fire or like fuller's soap (KJV).
- Peter tells us we will experience fiery trials
- we are told everyone will be "salted" with fire
- God's minister's are like a flame of fire
- even God is called a consuming fire
- God refines people through fire -> they may suffer loss but will be saved by fire

Now does anyone think that any of these references is referring to "hell"? Mark tells us everyone is going to be salted with fire. Does that mean we are all going to "hell"? In 1 Cor 3 Paul tells us that we will be tried in fire, and the fire will manifest our works, and will burn up the works of straw and wood. Is this "hell"? No, no, and no. None of these are references to literal fire, but instead are referring to spiritual fire - God's consuming fire that refines a person into pure gold (not literal gold either, but spiritual gold).

So when we come to Revelations, which is a book filled with symbols, why would you think the lake of fire is now all of a sudden physical literal fire that tortures people forever? Why should we think the lake of fire is "hell"? Look at all the examples of what spiritual fire does. It always refines, burning up the bad, and purifying the good. Look at the similarities between Rev 20 and 1 Cor 3:

- Every man is judged, tried, and tested according to his works
- the works are burned up
- they are burned up in spiritual fire

Is God a respecter of persons? Does God use spiritual fire to refine true believers, and then turns around and uses fire (physical or spiritual) to burn the unsaved for no other purpose than to torture them forever?

God is a consuming fire who saves.
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