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Old 07-09-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
This is a prophecy about the attack on Jerusalem and ruin of Jews. Sorry, but no cigar.
Nice... I said it was interesting... It implies that after the dying day there IS forgiveness....

AND you ignored my challenge... Perhaps it is because it is impossible to find anything in the bible talking about after death.

Here is another verse I found interesting:

Ezekiel 24:13 "In your filthiness is lewdness. Because I would have cleansed you, Yet you are not clean, You will not be cleansed from your filthiness again Until I have spent My wrath on you.

God's wrath is spent or finished at some point... and the result is to be cleansed from filthiness and to be clean....

The whole bible was written to the Jews, is about the Jews, applies to Jews.... Therefore you could (and I have) say that about ALL the verses... sounds like a cop out to me. IMHO of course.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,956 posts, read 34,295,019 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Nice... I said it was interesting... It implies that after the dying day there IS forgiveness....
Like I said, it does not talk about after life, it talks about what was going to happen to Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 24:13 is also a prophecy about the doom of Jerusalem, and not about after life.

Your challenge has been accepted countless times, and countless times your argument has been torn into pieces, and now you are proving me right once again. You are digging and scratching for verses which you think support your point of view, but they are hopelessly out of context and do not even talk about what you think they are talking about.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 07-09-2010 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,163,619 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Hmmmmm, do you suppose God will literally cut people in pieces? What sort of instrument would he use - a knife, scissors, a machete, all of these? Or might this cutting to pieces actually be a hyperbolic way of saying that men will be completely humbled, no longer able to hide the deepest inner thoughts of their darkened hearts - like being naked, only in a spiritual sense? If God is an invisible Spirit, will he be cutting people's spirits to pieces or physical bodies???

Heartsong
Yes. God will literally "cut him to pieces" ...that is "him" being the unbeliever, the work righteous, the false Christian. God is literally going to "cut to pieces" their self righteousness, their disbelief, their excuses .

Much like the prosecutor who "cut him to pieces" in court, so will it be for the unbeliever and those like him.

Only the unbelieving and others named above will be treated this way. It is incorrect to include believers at any time.
  • "will be completely humbled, no longer able to hide the deepest inner thoughts of their darkened hearts"
    • Isaiah 47:3
      Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one."

    • Ephesians 5:13
      But everything exposed by the light becomes visible,

    • Revelation 16:15
      "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
  • assign him a place
    • Matthew 25:41
      "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
  • they "will be beaten with many blows "
    • Matthew 25:46
      "Then they will go away to eternal punishment....
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,417,556 times
Reputation: 841
The Scriptures are full...teaching that the wicked will die...their soul is dead...

...DEAD SOUL!!!!!...AS IN NO! MORE!

...if they do not receive Jesus into their heart, repent of their sin, stop sinning willfully, become born-again, and changed! - into the character of Christ...walk as He walked, (and He kept the Ten Commandments...AND THE SABBATH!)...that they will NOT! see heaven...for ever more.

Suppose I say to a wicked person, 'You wicked person, you will certainly die,' and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, andI will hold you responsible for his death. Ezekiel 33:8

"Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don't warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:18

"But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don't turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself." Ezekiel 3:19

"If righteous people turn from living the right way and do wrong, I will make them stumble, and they will die. If you don't warn them, they will die because of their sin, and the right things they did will not be remembered. I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:20

"But suppose a righteous person turns away from doing right and he does evil things. He does all the disgusting things that the wicked person did. Will he live? All the right things that he has done will not be remembered because of his unfaithfulness and because of his sin. He will die because of them." Ezekiel 3:24

"When a righteous person turns away from doing right and does evil things, he will die. He will die because of the evil things he has done." Ezekiel 18:26


In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Like I said, it does not talk about after life, it talks about what was going to happen to Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 24:13 is also a prophecy about the doom of Jerusalem, and not about after life.

Your challenge has been accepted countless times, and countless times your argument has been torn into pieces, and now you are proving me right once again. You are digging and scratching for verses which you think support your point of view, but they are hopelessly out of context and do not even talk about what you think they are talking about.
I am trying to prove nothing. I am pointing out that NONE of the BIBLE addresses an AFTERLIFE.

You said it is clear that a person is NOT forgiven after death. And I am pointing out that it can't be clear. The bible was not written about after death but living life.

So "she is right" about the fact that neither view can be supported by a direct quotation in scripture.

Knowing the character of God and his son whom he sent is the key.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,285,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The Scriptures are full...teaching that the wicked will die...their soul is dead...

...DEAD SOUL!!!!!...AS IN NO! MORE!

...if they do not receive Jesus into their heart, repent of their sin, stop sinning willfully, become born-again, and changed! - into the character of Christ...walk as He walked, (and He kept the Ten Commandments...AND THE SABBATH!)...that they will NOT! see heaven...for ever more.

Suppose I say to a wicked person, 'You wicked person, you will certainly die,' and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, andI will hold you responsible for his death. Ezekiel 33:8

"Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don't warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:18

"But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don't turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself." Ezekiel 3:19

"If righteous people turn from living the right way and do wrong, I will make them stumble, and they will die. If you don't warn them, they will die because of their sin, and the right things they did will not be remembered. I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:20

"But suppose a righteous person turns away from doing right and he does evil things. He does all the disgusting things that the wicked person did. Will he live? All the right things that he has done will not be remembered because of his unfaithfulness and because of his sin. He will die because of them." Ezekiel 3:24

"When a righteous person turns away from doing right and does evil things, he will die. He will die because of the evil things he has done." Ezekiel 18:26


In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Yes; if a seed dies, it will bring forth much fruit. I also died one day in 1990. It was the best thing that could've happened to me!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The Scriptures are full...teaching that the wicked will die...their soul is dead...

...DEAD SOUL!!!!!...AS IN NO! MORE!
You've been dead before and know firsthand, eh? Interesting.

Quote:
...if they do not receive Jesus into their heart, repent of their sin, stop sinning willfully, become born-again, and changed! - into the character of Christ...walk as He walked, (and He kept the Ten Commandments...AND THE SABBATH!)...that they will NOT! see heaven...for ever more.
In your humble opinion....
Quote:
Suppose I say to a wicked person, 'You wicked person, you will certainly die,' and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, andI will hold you responsible for his death. Ezekiel 33:8

"Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don't warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:18

"But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don't turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself." Ezekiel 3:19

"If righteous people turn from living the right way and do wrong, I will make them stumble, and they will die. If you don't warn them, they will die because of their sin, and the right things they did will not be remembered. I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:20

"But suppose a righteous person turns away from doing right and he does evil things. He does all the disgusting things that the wicked person did. Will he live? All the right things that he has done will not be remembered because of his unfaithfulness and because of his sin. He will die because of them." Ezekiel 3:24

"When a righteous person turns away from doing right and does evil things, he will die. He will die because of the evil things he has done." Ezekiel 18:26
Why don't you ever use the NT? I wonder sometimes about your fanatical use of the archaic musings of men about a God who they clearly (as shown in the NT) did not know...


Quote:
In Christ's love...In His truth,

Christ's vengeful, self-gratifying love... After all... God's not worried about men as long as they are reverent to him in a certain way....
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,956 posts, read 34,295,019 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I am trying to prove nothing. I am pointing out that NONE of the BIBLE addresses an AFTERLIFE.

You said it is clear that a person is NOT forgiven after death. And I am pointing out that it can't be clear. The bible was not written about after death but living life.

So "she is right" about the fact that neither view can be supported by a direct quotation in scripture.

Knowing the character of God and his son whom he sent is the key.
Why are you quoting the Old Testament if you are not trying to prove any point of view?

The Bible does talk about aftelife. It says it will occur in heaven where belivers will be like God's own son, or in lake of fire which is the destination for unbelivers:

Revelation 21 6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:20 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,370 times
Reputation: 264
Romans 6:6,7 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Being freed from sin doesn't sound like such a bad thing! Being eternally tortured or exterminated doesn't sound like freedom to me.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,956 posts, read 34,295,019 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Romans 6:6,7 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
Being freed from sin doesn't sound like such a bad thing! Being eternally tortured or exterminated doesn't sound like freedom to me.
It talks about being born again, and yes, the destination of born again Christians is definetly better than the lake of fire for eternity, which is the destination of unbelievers.
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