U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-13-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,445,219 times
Reputation: 420

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
You have to be joking. UR doesn't believe in a physical "roasting" if that's what you mean. Its SPIRITUAL FIRE (aka trials, tribulations, judgments, experiences) which produces good character. But even if it was physical fire meant for nothing but pain and torment, burning for a finite time is nothing compared to burning in torment for eternity. Do you not see how cavalier your attitude is to those you believe who will be in agony forever?
We aren't talking about the trials of our lives...we are talking about what happens to the wicked post mortem....that is the premise of the thread.

Now..if this were a judgement post mortem on the individual that renders the individual's soul righteous, isn't this something Christ had already been judged on....again...the fallacy of UR, as if mankind has to experience any kind of fire post mortem for righteousness is a conundrum in UR....Christ already took care of the judgement of SIN AND DEATH for us.

You cannot have it both ways.

When I die, according to the scriptures, I will not experience anything of the sort you speak of, but I will be FOREVER WITH THE LORD.

Quote:
At least you are now admitting that you think God doesn't want to save everyone.
No...I said the scrtiptures do not speak of it. It shows His desire, but His desire is for us not to sin either, so you argument has no legs.

Quote:
. Have you not been reading all the scripture that gets posted here?
Yes I read it alot.

Quote:
It is only because of your "Israel only" paradigm that you reinterpret scripture to suit your doctrine.
This doctrine you speak of is the covenant of Israel, Jew and Gentile.....taken FROM OUT OF THE NATIONS...NOT ALL THE NATIONS....sorry Israel is the recipient of the blessings,...not all people....no matter how hard you try to avoid it with scriptural cherry picking gymnastics and eiesegesis, it still doesnt fit. It didnt for Origen, it won't for you.

Quote:
The "Israel only" paradigm is not about salvation, it is about understanding. They are the first to understand and experience God's plan. The elect get a glimpse of God's plan, and are used by God for His purposes in bringing the rest of mankind into salvation.
And they are the last to be grafted into the CHURCH...Jew and Gentile...hand picked from out of the nations...where God is ALL in ALL with them.....again....you fail miserably.

Quote:
It boggles my mind that you think it boils down to "WHAT PRAISE WILL HE GET OUT OF IT".
This is preciesly why you have no clue as to who God is.
Thank you for showing us....finally.

Quote:
It boggles my mind that you think God is loving because He chose to save some and leave the rest to burn.
He doesn't let anything happen. They burn on their own accord.
I am lucky...luckiest man alive IMO

Quote:
Sciotamicks, take a step back. Look at the big picture. If it is just about getting praise, what praise will God get by burning people forever
How is that glorious? How is that justice? I hope you would agree that God knew and planned all this to happen. So why did God plan to burn people forever? Is that really a loving and glorious act? Try to use some reason and compassion in your thinking here. That is what God wants you to do.
So little you know of the nature of God.....so little.
Like I said...God doesn't burn anyone....everyone burns themselves for rejecing Christ. You are all mixed up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,498,212 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
We aren't talking about the trials of our lives...we are talking about what happens to the wicked post mortem....that is the premise of the thread.

Now..if this were a judgement post mortem on the individual that renders the individual's soul righteous, isn't this something Christ had already been judged on....again...the fallacy of UR, as if mankind has to experience any kind of fire post mortem for righteousness is a conundrum in UR....Christ already took care of the judgement of SIN AND DEATH for us.

You cannot have it both ways.

When I die, according to the scriptures, I will not experience anything of the sort you speak of, but I will be FOREVER WITH THE LORD.



No...I said the scrtiptures do not speak of it. It shows His desire, but His desire is for us not to sin either, so you argument has no legs.



Yes I read it alot.



This doctrine you speak of is the covenant of Israel, Jew and Gentile.....taken FROM OUT OF THE NATIONS...NOT ALL THE NATIONS....sorry Israel is the recipient of the blessings,...not all people....no matter how hard you try to avoid it with scriptural cherry picking gymnastics and eiesegesis, it still doesnt fit. It didnt for Origen, it won't for you.



And they are the last to be grafted into the CHURCH...Jew and Gentile...hand picked from out of the nations...where God is ALL in ALL with them.....again....you fail miserably.



This is preciesly why you have no clue as to who God is.
Thank you for showing us....finally.



He doesn't let anything happen. They burn on their own accord.
I am lucky...luckiest man alive IMO



So little you know of the nature of God.....so little.
Like I said...God doesn't burn anyone....everyone burns themselves for rejecing Christ. You are all mixed up.
Do spirits burn? How exactly are the devil and his trusty companions going to be "burnt?" And isn't this the same fire that people get to swim around in?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,445,219 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Can you show the context of all these verses please

The righteous of Israel...look it up meerkat...that's why we provide the verse...I won't work for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,445,219 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Nope, it disagrees with you.

First the verses you supplied do not say "only" to those who fear and obey. It doesn't say it, because that is not only who it applies to.
LOL. I have heard it all now.. ....the scriptures still don't agree with you...again. You fail.

Quote:
1Ti 1:15 Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all welcome, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, foremost of whom am I'.

1Ti 1:16 But therefore was I shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ should be displaying all His patience, towardfor a pattern of those who are about to be believing on Him into life eonian.
Again....read carefully....

And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Same apostle.....same message. Believe in Him. You fail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:07 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,632,088 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No...I said the scrtiptures do not speak of it. It shows His desire, but His desire is for us not to sin either, so you argument has no legs.
No, your argument has no legs because you don't think about it and don't follow it through.

God desires for us to not sin. God will achieve this one day when we are no longer in these fleshly bodies and no longer sin.
God desires for us all to be saved. God will achieve this desire in the same way He achieves His desire for us to no longer sin.

From God's perspective, it is already finished.
Quote:
He doesn't let anything happen. They burn on their own accord.
I am lucky...luckiest man alive IMO
You would have to believe you are lucky. In reality there is no luck or chance. But your other statement is illogical. If people are burning, it is either because God lets it happen or because God causes it to happen. According to your Calvinism, God is the sovereign one who has chosen who is not going to be burning -> therefore He is the cause.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:19 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,849,188 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
LOL. I have heard it all now.. ....the scriptures still don't agree with you...again. You fail.
That is just an empty claim. Simply because you cannot produce anything but inference to your claim. The scriptures do not agree with you by simple fact that they do not say or imply what you say.



Quote:
You fail.

Again, you can say you win in a game, but that has no bearing upon whether you actually did.

The scriptures speak of a sinner being shown mercy and that mercy was why he now believes. There is no point is saying that the chief of sinners was shown mercy if there was none.


Just remember saying someone fails, does not mean they have, but of course, you are free to believe you are a car while standing in a garage I suppose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,294 posts, read 34,485,629 times
Reputation: 10554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I did not ask you to show me a verse about eternal punishment. I asked you to show me a verse where Jesus says that if a person does not believe He died to free them from their sins, that in fact, His death and resurrection does not free them from their sins. You didn't show such a verse, but instead, quoted a verse out of a passage that is talking about doing good for other people, and has nothing to do with being freed from sin.
And you accuse me of playing word games? Sigh.......

Have a good night.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:27 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,583,824 times
Reputation: 5149
Anyone who subscribes to Luck/Chance and professes to "know" the ways of the Creator in the same breath...can only be surmised as "not knowing" at all in my book...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,445,219 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
No, your argument has no legs because you don't think about it and don't follow it through.
I follow everything through.

Quote:
God desires for us to not sin. God will achieve this one day when we are no longer in these fleshly bodies and no longer sin.
In the Age to Come..which is the New Heavens and Earth, where death is destroyed.
Am I following you correctly?
Those are the themes you speak of this time.

Quote:
From God's perspective, it is already finished.
Yes!
That is the ONLY perspective that is in play.

Quote:
You would have to believe you are lucky. In reality there is no luck or chance.
I know. It was a play on words...figure of speech.

Quote:
But your other statement is illogical. If people are burning, it is either because God lets it happen or because God causes it to happen.
No...the scriptrures says man caused it to happen. He sinned. This is where the whole NO FREE WILL concept is thwarted. Obviously, if God didn not want man to sin, He would have never put the TOK in the garden. This theme goes alot deeper than the feeble minds of men. This concept is rooted in the angelic conflict that preceeded mankind, and becasue of mankind, is the very cause of the conflict that is far beyond our little minds of comprehending. These judgements...ARE UNSEARCHABLE....and it is only the scriptures, the evidence of the Jewish peeopl as the firstborn, their lessons, and puriicaitons, that paved way, for the purpose and objective of God's love and purpose, to be towards a creation that believes in Him. The devil, Satan, the angry angel, attempted to thwart that plan, but God always wins in the end, and sin, and the effects of sin....DEATH, have been overcome once and for all....on the CROSS.

Quote:
According to your Calvinism, God is the sovereign one who has chosen who is not going to be burning -> therefore He is the cause.
For His plan and praise.....that is the puropose...His kingdom....Legoman....His New Creation and New Heavens and Earth, IS NOT OF THIS WORLD....and this earth...the old creation, that is bound by the laws of sin and death...can only be overcome in the spirit, in Christ, and here lay the factory for His kingdom, as it continues to increase...unto a world without end.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,445,219 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is just an empty claim. Simply because you cannot produce anything but inference to your claim. The scriptures do not agree with you by simple fact that they do not say or imply what you say.

Again, you can say you win in a game, but that has no bearing upon whether you actually did.

The scriptures speak of a sinner being shown mercy and that mercy was why he now believes. There is no point is saying that the chief of sinners was shown mercy if there was none.

Just remember saying someone fails, does not mean they have, but of course, you are free to believe you are a car while standing in a garage I suppose.
Words...just words...with no exegetical backup. You are consistent.
You fail...because you have no clue as to have a study with scripture.

Carry on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top