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Old 07-13-2010, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote by Legoman: It boggles my mind that you think it boils down to "WHAT PRAISE WILL HE GET OUT OF IT".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

This is preciesly why you have no clue as to who God is.
Thank you for showing us....finally.
Legoman is right:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.

Praise is for us - to draw us near to God. God deserves our praise, but He doesn't need it. Maybe you're getting him mixed up the devil who was jealous of God and wanted all the praise.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,489,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Quote by Legoman: It boggles my mind that you think it boils down to "WHAT PRAISE WILL HE GET OUT OF IT".


Legoman is right:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.

Praise is for us - to draw us near to God. God deserves our praise, but He doesn't need it. Maybe you're getting him mixed up the devil who was jealous of God and wanted all the praise.
"Satan, the angry angel," is what sciotamicks said.. Made me smile for some reason.

But, yes, maybe people get the adversary's ways mixed up with God's ways.
Jesus did not produce what the Jews wanted; a wrathful, jealous, vengeful god who wiped out humanity to pave the way for their own personal paradise.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Words...just words...with no exegetical backup. You are consistent.
You fail...because you have no clue as to have a study with scripture.

Carry on.

Yes, you are just saying words when you make claims that mean nothing.


The problem is when the scriptures you use fail to say what you say they say, you are forced to bring out your man made set of instructions on how to make scripture say what it really doesn't say.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:13 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,613,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I follow everything through.

In the Age to Come..which is the New Heavens and Earth, where death is destroyed.
Am I following you correctly?
Those are the themes you speak of this time.
sciotamicks, some how you missed the whole thing here. You said God doesn't get what He wants because people sin. And I'm saying God does get what He wants because one day people won't sin. None. No one will sin anywhere. Sin is destroyed. God will achieve that desire for there to be no sin.

So your argument that God doesn't get what He wants because people sin is not well thought out. God does get what He wants - there is no barrier that could stop God achieving His desire to save all men.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:18 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,613,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No...the scriptrures says man caused it to happen. He sinned. This is where the whole NO FREE WILL concept is thwarted. Obviously, if God didn not want man to sin, He would have never put the TOK in the garden. This theme goes alot deeper than the feeble minds of men. This concept is rooted in the angelic conflict that preceeded mankind, and becasue of mankind, is the very cause of the conflict that is far beyond our little minds of comprehending. These judgements...ARE UNSEARCHABLE....and it is only the scriptures, the evidence of the Jewish peeopl as the firstborn, their lessons, and puriicaitons, that paved way, for the purpose and objective of God's love and purpose, to be towards a creation that believes in Him. The devil, Satan, the angry angel, attempted to thwart that plan, but God always wins in the end, and sin, and the effects of sin....DEATH, have been overcome once and for all....on the CROSS.
I'm sorry. The above is a bunch of gobbleygook nonsense. You say man has free will. Then you say if God didn't want man to sin, He wouldn't have put the TOK in the garden. Huh? Then why did God put the TOK in the garden? God KNEW that man would sin. Unless you don't believe God knows the future.

The stuff about the so-called "angelic conflict" is off-topic, but in err and based on man-made traditions.

Then you finish up with God overcoming sin & death once and for all through Christ on the CROSS. I agree! Too bad you don't believe it. Strange response.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:20 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,613,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Yes, you are just saying words when you make claims that mean nothing.


The problem is when the scriptures you use fail to say what you say they say, you are forced to bring out your man made set of instructions on how to make scripture say what it really doesn't say.
Bingo. The giveaway (if nothing else) is the constant use of the phrases like "You have failed", "You have been defeated.", etc. Its meaningless rhetoric.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Quote by Legoman: It boggles my mind that you think it boils down to "WHAT PRAISE WILL HE GET OUT OF IT".


Legoman is right:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails.

Praise is for us - to draw us near to God. God deserves our praise, but He doesn't need it. Maybe you're getting him mixed up the devil who was jealous of God and wanted all the praise.
What does this scripture have anything to do with what God wants from us? This is about Love, the emotion......now surely you aren't eisegetically imposing that this love being spoken of here is actually...God? And nobody said He needed it, just that is what He wants from us. ...LOL You people get all mixed up...no wonder these themes are difficult for you. You can't tell the difference between need and want.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Bingo. The giveaway (if nothing else) is the constant use of the phrases like "You have failed", "You have been defeated.", etc. Its meaningless rhetoric.
What's meaninless is you all can't get around the themes.

OP topic:

UR says man is judged and purified by fire after He dies and inherits eternal life.
Christ was ALREADY judged for our sins.

UR has a dual payment. Simple.
Therefore...UR is false.

Next?

Last edited by sciotamicks; 07-13-2010 at 04:49 PM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
sciotamicks, some how you missed the whole thing here. You said God doesn't get what He wants because people sin. And I'm saying God does get what He wants because one day people won't sin. None. No one will sin anywhere. Sin is destroyed. God will achieve that desire for there to be no sin.

So your argument that God doesn't get what He wants because people sin is not well thought out. God does get what He wants - there is no barrier that could stop God achieving His desire to save all men.
And I am saying where SIN IS DESTROYED, according to the scriptures, is the New Heavens and Earth, the Age to Come. Stick with the themes...no wonder you people are all over the place...you haven't any direction...just an end result. Your means do not justify the ends, and vice versa. You people haven't got a clue as to what event/age you are even addressing. Be consistent at least.

At least Phazelwood is consistent...he is just words, and no exegesis.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I'm sorry. The above is a bunch of gobbleygook nonsense. You say man has free will. Then you say if God didn't want man to sin, He wouldn't have put the TOK in the garden. Huh? Then why did God put the TOK in the garden? God KNEW that man would sin. Unless you don't believe God knows the future.
Of course God knew man was going to sin...that isn't the point. The point is that He gave man the will to sin or not. Choices...it's a intricate relaitonship...something that if you bothered reading anything about Calvinsim further than WIKI, you would understand. But it is evident most of the Universalists I run iinto are very uneducated about most doctrines and denominaitons.

Quote:
The stuff about the so-called "angelic conflict" is off-topic, but in err and based on man-made traditions.
Ok...but you are mistaken.. hint Revelation 12, and refer to any of the references any commentator would send you to, but oh wait...you reject the teachings of the last 2000 years of the church in its entirety...too bad for you.

Quote:
Then you finish up with God overcoming sin & death once and for all through Christ on the CROSS. I agree! Too bad you don't believe it. Strange response.
Sure thing...for the believer...he is clothed with Christ's blood, but these are simple themes in very simple areas of scripture...something that UR rejects, thus renders it false. For a good refresher....Rev 21.

You can go from there.
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