U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:03 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,760 times
Reputation: 644

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
But of course I do! But what context and who is the audience, who is the directed subject?

1 Cor 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

God's love is extended to those who obey and have faith in Him.
Precisely why He sent Christ, or better yet, came here in the flesh, and paid dearly for our sins, so that that SPECIAL relaitonship...may be restored to the one who has faith in Him. Believers.


1Jn 4:19 We are loving God, for He first loves us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
1Jn 4:19 We are loving God, for He first loves us.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Stay in context Universalist
Here, John is talking about belivers...those who obey God. You are very incorrect in your UR assertions. It is the same with each and every one of you.....the scriptures always disprove your claims....every single time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 10:00 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,760 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Stay in context Universalist
Here, John is talking about belivers...those who obey God. You are very incorrect in your UR assertions. It is the same with each and every one of you.....the scriptures always disprove your claims....every single time.


I have no obligation to stay in your man invented context so take your empty assertions to someone who can't tell that they are empty.


Your context tries to take the truth away from the verse, the verse says what GOD DOES FIRST. If a believer hears that now he can think it is only for believers, however that believer was once an unbeliever and that unbeliever did not love God FIRST.


So simply put, if God has predestined only certain ones to love him, then the verse is absolutely meaningless in your context, that is why your context has no use.

People come to believe because GOD LOVES THEM FIRST. To say that not all will believe is a contradiction because you have to unscripturally assert (through your man invented context of course) that God does not love everyone.

When people say God hated esau, they cannot seem to divide the word to know that God hates esau because he was a respresentation of our carnality.

You smoke some good context, that is for sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:13 AM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
God's love is extended to those who obey and have faith in Him.
Precisely why He sent Christ, or better yet, came here in the flesh, and paid dearly for our sins, so that that SPECIAL relaitonship...may be restored to the one who has faith in Him. Believers.
I will never cease to be astounded that you can love a God who will NOT love you if you don't love Him . . . especially when He tells us the opposite. Luke 6:35

". . . and if you love those that love you, what merit have you? For even sinners do that . . . But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, not hoping for any return, and your reward shall be great, and you shall be children of the Most High, for He is kind towards the ungrateful and evil. Be merciful therefore, even as your Father is merciful."

Your version of God is a Moderator cut: deleted , petty, jealous and vengeful HUMAN caricature of God that is blasphemous in the extreme. You place too much faith in Moderator cut: deleted the Nicene Council who bought into the false prophets and satanic deceptions of the first centuries after Christ's death and the antichrist that was prevalent.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 11:51 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:25 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 10,700,409 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

God's love is extended to those who obey and have faith in Him.
Precisely why He sent Christ....so that that SPECIAL relaitonship...may be restored to the one who has faith in Him. Believers.

June knows for a fact, based on the bible that you all read (and which she has read, as well) that Christ came for her, the unbeliever, as well!


Take gentle care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I have no obligation to stay in your man invented context so take your empty assertions to someone who can't tell that they are empty.
Man invented LOL...sorry you are incorrect...this is scripturally invented...take it up with God.

Quote:
Your context tries to take the truth away from the verse, the verse says what GOD DOES FIRST.
Your eisegesis creates false doctrine.

Quote:
If a believer hears that now he can think it is only for believers, however that believer was once an unbeliever and that unbeliever did not love God FIRST.
The whole purpose of telling an unbeliever that God loves him...so seek Him, so one can benefit from that love!

Quote:
So simply put, if God has predestined only certain ones to love him, then the verse is absolutely meaningless in your context, that is why your context has no use.
Wrong. It brings the meaning of the verse, when read in full context, that confessing in Christ realizes that love.

Quote:
People come to believe because GOD LOVES THEM FIRST.
Absolutely. He died for them. That is the message of the epistles of John...to get people SAVED!

Quote:
To say that not all will believe is a contradiction because you have to unscripturally assert (through your man invented context of course) that God does not love everyone.
No one said not all will believe here, but since you bring it up....1 Tim 2 has nothing to do with ALL BELIEVING, and neither does Phil 2 or Romans 14, or even Isa 45.
Those deal with the resurrection, the marriage of Righteous Israel, Jew and Gentile, bowing to Christ as Lord.

Quote:
When people say God hated esau, they cannot seem to divide the word to know that God hates esau because he was a respresentation of our carnality.
A representation, that is destroyed upon faith in Christ John 5:24-27

Quote:
You smoke some good context, that is for sure.
At least I smoke context...something you pass up each and every time.
At least you are consistent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I will never cease to be astounded that you can love a God who will NOT love you if you don't love Him . . . especially when He tells us the opposite. Luke 6:35
It will never cease to amaze me that you discard the OT literature for savage minded individuals and less of an inspiration and holy penmanship of God's holy word. Moderator cut: deleted as attacking

Quote:
Moderator cut: Orphaned Your version of God is a Moderator cut: orphaned petty, jealous and vengeful HUMAN caricature of God that is blasphemous in the extreme. You place too much faith in Moderator cut: orphaned of the Nicene Council who bought into the false prophets and satanic deceptions of the first centuries after Christ's death and the antichrist that was prevalent.
Moderator cut:

[mod' deleted reference that violated TOS.
And secondly, I don't really need to lean on the NIcene Council....I Clement and Barnabas, as well as other valid late first century text all denounce your claims of eternal life with God for the wicked.

Christ was judged for our sins so that we can have eternal life.
Man cannot be judged for his sins after he dies to inherit eternal life.
Christ already took care of that. That man's inheritance is eternal John 5:24-27
because of his belief in Christ.

UR purports that the unbelieving man can be judged for his sins and inherit eternal life. This negates the cross. UR is therefore, a false doctrine because it negates the purpose of the cross.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 11:53 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:51 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,760 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Man invented LOL...sorry you are incorrect...this is scripturally invented...take it up with God.
I do, should we take everything up with him, or did your exegesis over look that.

Quote:


Your eisegesis creates false doctrine.
Empty claim.

Quote:

The whole purpose of telling an unbeliever that God loves him...so seek Him, so one can benefit from that love!

Doesn't change scripture, you as a believer was once an unbeliever and God loved you before you could love him.


Quote:

Wrong. It brings the meaning of the verse, when read in full context, that confessing in Christ realizes that love.
Wrong perspective, You believe that God loves you now, however, God lloved you when you was incapable of seeing it.

Quote:


Absolutely. He died for them. That is the message of the epistles of John...to get people SAVED!

Different issue. What we as believers are instructed to do and carry out still does not change the fact that God loved us FIRST in order to enable us to do those things.

Quote:

No one said not all will believe here, but since you bring it up....1 Tim 2 has nothing to do with ALL BELIEVING, and neither does Phil 2 or Romans 14, or even Isa 45.
No one has to say it, but some do, the presupposition is there because you can't believe that God does indeed save all, because He loved ALL First and that CAUSES all to LOVE him.

Quote:
Those deal with the resurrection, the marriage of Righteous Israel, Jew and Gentile, bowing to Christ as Lord.
A pointless context since Gods word applies to all people. So to leverage that context simply places the use of Scripture for those living during the the ancient times making it insignificant for anyone today.

I am an American, I do not see American in scripture, so I guess it doesn't apply to me.

Quote:

A representation, that is destroyed upon faith in Christ John 5:24-27
Of course, God loved us FIRST and HE LOVES ALL. Since he loves all and his love never fails then we all will believe.



Quote:

At least I smoke context...something you pass up each and every time.
At least you are consistent.
Now your saying bad context is better than no context, however I have context I just am not obligated to use yours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,708 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I do, should we take everything up with him, or did your exegesis over look that.

Empty claim.

Doesn't change scripture, you as a believer was once an unbeliever and God loved you before you could love him.

Wrong perspective, You believe that God loves you now, however, God lloved you when you was incapable of seeing it.

Different issue. What we as believers are instructed to do and carry out still does not change the fact that God loved us FIRST in order to enable us to do those things.

No one has to say it, but some do, the presupposition is there because you can't believe that God does indeed save all, because He loved ALL First and that CAUSES all to LOVE him.

A pointless context since Gods word applies to all people. So to leverage that context simply places the use of Scripture for those living during the the ancient times making it insignificant for anyone today.

I am an American, I do not see American in scripture, so I guess it doesn't apply to me.
I am an Israelite, yet I am an American in the flesh.

I will address you generally, as you seem to have steered way of course form the OP..but in a nutshell, you have failed in producing any text except for 1 John 4:19 to support your claim, when in fact, when read as a whole, it is very obvious John is strictly talking of believers. This is something you deny, so therefore, you deny the scriptures and the author's intent. This is quite common amongst UR, and will continue to be common as they try to push a self serving doctrine of the flesh.


You are consistent in producing nothing but words from your own invented mind, without any scriptural support for your claims, and when you do produce any scriptures whatsoever, it is always easily refuted by many other scriptures, disproving your impositions of your own preconceived notions into the text. With that being said, it is logically concluded that you are first, not well versed in the scriptures, and secondly, you have bee taught incorrectly by your peers, which leaves you closed minded and in complete denial of the Holy Word of God, that stands above all our teachers and peers, which has proven your claims wrong each and every time, as many have shown you to be in error continuously here at this forum. You words are nothing but Hot Air.
Moderator cut: Use "Report Post" function and let moderators moderate.


Quote:
Of course, God loved us FIRST and HE LOVES ALL. Since he loves all and his love never fails then we all will believe.
I bolded your faulty eisegesis. Produce something in line with the OP, and try to stay in context, and do a little homework, and please...back up your opinion with scripture(s) that support your claim.

Quote:
Now your saying bad context is better than no context, however I have context I just am not obligated to use yours.
You never said anything about bad context. you just said context. WE aren't mind readers Phazelwood...be clear and concise...something that appears to be difficult for you. You are obligated to utilize context period, something which, by your assertion of 1 John 4, is evident and clear, that you did not even remotely attempt at. You were merely corrected for eisegetically imposing your biased views, onto the scripture. And I, produced practically the whole chapter, when I only needed to produce on verse, that dismantled your silent claim.

Moderator cut: Use "Report Post" function and let moderators moderate.


UR believes in dual payment of sin for eternal life.

Can you exegetically rebutt that?

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 01:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:51 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,760 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I am an Israelite, yet I am an American in the flesh.

I will address you generally, as you seem to have steered way of course form the OP..but in a nutshell, you have failed in producing any text except for 1 John 4:19 to support your claim, when in fact, when read as a whole, it is very obvious John is strictly talking of believers. This is something you deny, so therefore, you deny the scriptures and the author's intent. This is quite common amongst UR, and will continue to be common as they try to push a self serving doctrine of the flesh.


You are consistent in producing nothing but words from your own invented mind, without any scriptural support for your claims, and when you do produce any scriptures whatsoever, it is always easily refuted by many other scriptures, disproving your impositions of your own preconceived notions into the text. With that being said, it is logically concluded that you are first, not well versed in the scriptures, and secondly, you have bee taught incorrectly by your peers, which leaves you closed minded and in complete denial of the Holy Word of God, that stands above all our teachers and peers, which has proven your claims wrong each and every time, as many have shown you to be in error continuously here at this forum. You words are nothing but Hot Air.
Moderator cut: Orphaned



I bolded your faulty eisegesis. Produce something in line with the OP, and try to stay in context, and do a little homework, and please...back up your opinion with scripture(s) that support your claim.



You never said anything about bad context. you just said context. WE aren't mind readers Phazelwood...be clear and concise...something that appears to be difficult for you. You are obligated to utilize context period, something which, by your assertion of 1 John 4, is evident and clear, that you did not even remotely attempt at. You were merely corrected for eisegetically imposing your biased views, onto the scripture. And I, produced practically the whole chapter, when I only needed to produce on verse, that dismantled your silent claim.


Moderator cut: Orphaned
UR believes in dual payment of sin for eternal life.

Can you exegetically rebutt that?

Something you fail to realize is that I am not obligated to explain anything to your standards, this is your fallacy. It is a fallacy that if my explanation does not meet your approval then it is wrong.

So go try your faulty reasoning on someone who is blind to it.


The issue with the payment of sins is that I do not need to rebutt anything. You do it to yourself.

If a dual payment for sins is not scriptural and therefore false doctrine, your own doctrine is false because after death if any human being suffers the concequenses for their sin then Jesus payment was not enough in the first place, so your doctrine is a sham because you have to take you man made context and assert a fallacy that God doesn't love everyone in the first place.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-14-2010 at 01:13 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top