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Old 07-07-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,088,418 times
Reputation: 982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Actually, shutting down a paper mill (and probably the same with lots of manufacturing plants) would involve one full day to bring operations down, plus the shutdown day for the Sabbath, plus the next day to bring the machines back up. That equals 3 days of production downtime. There really would be a big difference in our world, but like you said, God can provide. I have no doubt about that, but I still don't think this is realistic in our world, or that God expects it to be that way. I think we are supposed to keep the Sabbath in our hearts, and every day, not just one. That's how I see it, but to each his own view.

P.S. There might be a shortage of napkins, paper towels, etc, too.



Hmmm. Sounds like we need a Rabbi to sort this out.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,689,480 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Uh...Houston...we have a slight problem...

If that definition of the sabbath is correct, then that means A LOT of us who live up in the northern latitudes (such as Alaska, northern Canada and Europe, etc) are forced to work on the sabbath! Why? Because....the sun sets BEFORE the end of the normal work hours on Friday! (the sabbath begins before the end of our work-day) We see the sun set around 2:30PM here in mid-December...and it rises around 11AM the next day...

Furthermore, let's examine what happens if you happen to live further north, such as Barrow, Ak, for example: The sun sets one day in mid-November, and then does not rise again until near the end of January!!! That's right: about two months of perpetual darkness: day and night are both dark!
Does that then mean their "sabbath" lasts about two months, during that season of the year?...

And....(as if that wasn't enough), around the summer solstice in June the sun does not set AT ALL! 24 hrs of sunshine! (Yep: sun still shining brightly at midnight, at 1AM, at 2AM, at 3AM, at 4AM, etc, etc) Therefore, no sabbath at all in the summer months???

Barrow, Alaska - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Cheers
Bud
Seward, Alaska
LOL I was reading about the sabbath and it is from sundown friday until you see 3 stars in the sky saturday night....

In Washington State there are more cloudy days than clear ones.... what if you can't see the stars?

No sabbath in spring or fall for me (and we only have those two seasons here!).

Truth is that the sabbath was designed for a certain culture in a certain locale... not really applicable to everyone anyway and really wasn't meant to be. The sabbath was to distinguish them from the others (ungodly) around them.

Great observation though! It looks as though you can't live in AK...
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,689,480 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post


Hmmm. Sounds like we need a Rabbi to sort this out.
Hospitals too would be slightly at a disadvantage... no life support for 24 hours might kill people.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 885,819 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Hospitals too would be slightly at a disadvantage... no life support for 24 hours might kill people.
Refer to post #33

I will not repeat myself............. unless I'm signing off!!! LOL



GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 885,819 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Hospitals too would be slightly at a disadvantage... no life support for 24 hours might kill people.
You must believe that it is bad to save lives huh??


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,803 posts, read 7,382,973 times
Reputation: 2960
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
You must believe that it is bad to save lives huh??


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
Keeping electricity on helps to save lives, so we need people to work for the electric company. I bet in one way or another we can all be intertwined in away where what we do somehow helps another person. Hence we are all doing good we can use your get out of hell free clause.

Or we can just thank God for sending Jesus to free us from all of these petty legalisms and get back to loving God and loving others.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 885,819 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Keeping electricity on helps to save lives, so we need people to work for the electric company. I bet in one way or another we can all be intertwined in away where what we do somehow helps another person. Hence we are all doing good we can use your get out of hell free clause.

Or we can just thank God for sending Jesus to free us from all of these petty legalisms and get back to loving God and loving others.

Legalism???????????

So I can have idols???

I can murder??

I can steal??

I can worship other Gods??

I can commit adultery??

I can lie??

I don't understand??

You pick and choose which commandments are to be followed??

Which ones of these are legalism and which are not??

Lord hilgi, can you please tell me!!!
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 885,819 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Keeping electricity on helps to save lives, so we need people to work for the electric company. I bet in one way or another we can all be intertwined in away where what we do somehow helps another person. Hence we are all doing good we can use your get out of hell free clause.

Or we can just thank God for sending Jesus to free us from all of these petty legalisms and get back to loving God and loving others.
Is it doing good to have someone on call for an electrical emergency to save lives???

Or is it bad??

My opinion says it is good, and Jesus said:

"it is lawful to do good on the sabbath"


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,771,455 times
Reputation: 531
The following "Question" was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.

Question

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

Answer

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.


In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.

There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.

When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.

The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.

In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).

In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).

The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).

Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).
So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath."
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 885,819 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
The following "Question" was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.

Question

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

Answer

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.


In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.

The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.

There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.

When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.

The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.

In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).

In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).

The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).

Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).
So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath."

Hello CW2L,

Nice of you to join us!!!

Actually when he spoke of a shadow of things to come he was speaking of a certain law (not the sabbath commandment) as refered to in the book of Hebrews:

"For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, and not the very image of the things, can never with those SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect."

(HEBREWS 10:1)


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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