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Show me how the standard of Jesus are not higher than the works of the law, including the ten commandments.
If you cannot, then explain how one is under grace if they are still under the law.
Either you are in a relationship where by faith in the Son of God He will help us to live as His or... you are in a religion, seeking to be justified still by keeping the sabbath, and thus have fallen from grace.
Again: you can keep the sabbath: but if you seek to exalt yourself over another as if you are more justified than one that does not keep the sabbath, then you have fallen from grace, voiding faith in Him as being able to present you faultless to His glory as no flesh shall glory in His presence as in again... no one will be glorified as a sabbath keeper.
Believers today should only keep the sabbath simply because they want to: not because they have to. That shows love towards God as well as not ignoring the justification by faith in Him alone as being apart from the law.
Why must people continue to say I exalt myself, or I say that people HAVE TO keep the sabbath!!! It is up to the person whether or not they keep it!!
Again, I only tell people that all ten commandments still stand!!
The thing is this: I did not create the sabbath day!!
I did not make up things that are and are not to be done on the sabbath!!
I do not impose it on anyone, I only state the importance of it!!
If one does not observe the sabbath, I am not the one they need to answer to!!!
*Dale's straight face*
Why do you believe that God only gave 4 commands that show how much you love him??
And why does everyone insist that you can love God without the four, but cannot love fellow man without the following 6??
The reason I believe most people do is because their is no way to commit the other 6 against God!! So the only way we can show our love to him is to show Him our allegience.... That we know He is the only God and that we will serve him!!!!
Only my opinion!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
But you just argued that the 613 commands are not written by God... God wrote the "7th day"... Where did HE specify SATURDAY or any day for that matter... So really that 7th day being saturday was NOT written by the finger of God but was an addition made by men just as the 613....
Right?
Hebrews 4 talks about the seventh not in weeks but as entering his rest...spiritually... what does he mean by that?
What day was Moses' seventh day?
Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
sabbath means to rest from labor... but you seem to think it means saturday rest from labor.
God didn't write SATURDAY with his fingers did he?
5."But there rose up certain of the sect of the pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep THE LAW OF MOSES. 6. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider this matter. 7. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9. And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a YOKE UPON THE NECK OF THE DISCIPLES , which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear."
(ACTS 15:5-10)
The yoke is obviously the book of the law of Moses, not the ten commandments that were written with the very finger of God!!!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
You cannot be serious Dale , the keeping of the Law was the yoke upon our necks . This why Jesus took it way beyond what the law said , when He said if you even look upon a woman to lust after her you have commited adultery with her , and if you hate your brother you have commited murder .
In other words the commandments has you know it are impossible to keep, and this very much includes the 10 commandments.
A great lesson will be learnt when we understand it's Him keeping us and not us keeping the commandments.
If you can show me where it says in the ten commandments that we need to be circumcised, then I will agree that Peter was speaking of the ten commandments!!!
It cannot be done!!!
It is only found in the book of the law written with the hand of Moses!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
The law of Moses is not just 10 commandments
The law came was given through Moses , grace and truth came through Jesus Christ .
Moses represented all what the Law was (even though the 10 commandments were written by the finger of God Himself).Exodus 21 verse 1 1“These are the laws you are to set before them:
Jesus Christ represents all that God is (If you have seen me you have seen the Father)
But you just argued that the 613 commands are not written by God... God wrote the "7th day"... Where did HE specify SATURDAY or any day for that matter... So really that 7th day being saturday was NOT written by the finger of God but was an addition made by men just as the 613....
Right?
Hebrews 4 talks about the seventh not in weeks but as entering his rest...spiritually... what does he mean by that?
What day was Moses' seventh day?
Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
sabbath means to rest from labor... but you seem to think it means saturday rest from labor.
God didn't write SATURDAY with his fingers did he?
Kat, any scholar of history will tell you that clearly the Roman influenced names, for the weekly days, obviously did not exist at creation or when Moses was on Sinai. You ever stop to consider why there are 7 days in a week? We have earthly rotation cycles that dictate days/nights, lunar cycles that dictate months, and solar cycles that dictate years, but what about this 7 day weekly cycle? Genesis is really the only explanation for it. Now, the same God that created the weekly cycle in Genesis is the same God that set israel's weekly cycle when they were in the wilderness for 40 years. Mana fell on days 1-6 and was not to be found on the 7th day. If they gathered extra on days 1-5 any extra would spoil by the morning, but when they gathered extra on day six, it would stay fresh through day 7. This is how it went day in and day out for forty years. That same cycle has been maintained ever since without any alterations. When Christ came He followed that very same cycle that was still being kept, and 2000 years later, jews today are still following that same exact cycle. That cycle has the 7th day of the week falling on the day that modern calendars refer to as Saturday. Many who know the history of the 7th day of the week still properly refer to it though, as simply the Sabbath. The 7th day of the week has been the Sabbath ever since creation regardless of what other names man has assigned to it.
You cannot be serious Dale , the keeping of the Law was the yoke upon our necks . This why Jesus took it way beyond what the law said , when He said if you even look upon a woman to lust after her you have commited adultery with her , and if you hate your brother you have commited murder .
In other words the commandments has you know it are impossible to keep, and this very much includes the 10 commandments.
A great lesson will be learnt when we understand it's Him keeping us and not us keeping the commandments.
The funny thing about the commandment keeper crowd is they usually go hand in hand with the anti-homosexual crowd.
If they are so focused on just the 10, how does being gay fit into it? (Assuming the translations about gays are correct. I don’t assume that BTW)
Why must people continue to say I exalt myself, or I say that people HAVE TO keep the sabbath!!! It is up to the person whether or not they keep it!!
Again, I only tell people that all ten commandments still stand!!
God is the one who created the ten, not me!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
If you read the beautitudes you will see it's an imppossibility to do . Jesus raised the standard so those who think they can keep it were left without excuse.
When Jesus said this
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Do you think He forgot about this ?
as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE.
You can try as much as you want you are not keeping the commandments
“For whoever keeps the whole law (HELLO!!!!!!!!!!), and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” Please don't even try to begin to tell me the whole law is not inclusive of the 10 commandments after reading this verse.
Kat, any scholar of history will tell you that clearly the Roman influenced names, for the weekly days, obviously did not exist at creation or when Moses was on Sinai. You ever stop to consider why there are 7 days in a week? We have earthly rotation cycles that dictate days/nights, lunar cycles that dictate months, and solar cycles that dictate years, but what about this 7 day weekly cycle? Genesis is really the only explanation for it. Now, the same God that created the weekly cycle in Genesis is the same God that set israel's weekly cycle when they were in the wilderness for 40 years. Mana fell on days 1-6 and was not to be found on the 7th day. If they gathered extra on days 1-5 any extra would spoil by the morning, but when they gathered extra on day six, it would stay fresh through day 7. This is how it went day in and day out for forty years. That same cycle has been maintained ever since without any alterations. When Christ came He followed that very same cycle that was still being kept, and 2000 years later, jews today are still following that same exact cycle. That cycle has the 7th day of the week falling on the day that modern calendars refer to as Saturday. Many who know the history of the 7th day of the week still properly refer to it though, as simply the Sabbath. The 7th day of the week has been the Sabbath ever since creation regardless of what other names man has assigned to it.
So man recorded what day the sabbath fell on and from that moment on it has always been on saturday? How do you know our modern 7 days is in line with those then... The sabbath was the day after man was made.. did Adam record what day that was and then line out all the 7th days until now? I don't see how the bible teaches saturday is the 7th day.
What if God's week started on Saturday? Then that would be the 1st day and Friday is the 7th day....???
What I think Dale was, and has for some time, been trying to get people to see is that the 10C are God's laws, the law of Moses refers to all the others. It isn't rocket science to see which laws were to be as eternal and everlasting as God Himself, and which ones were meant to be temporary. Only 10 laws were CARVED INTO STONE BY THE VERY FINGER OF GOD. All others were written down by Moses on paper scrolls. It still baffles me that these discussions go on like this for 10-12 pages. Why would anyone think that something written by God in that manner would have any less significance today than when He wrote it? Every person on earth, since Adam and Eve, who has been saved has been saved by grace/faith in Christ. I find it very hard to understand why so many Christians seem to believe that salvation by grace/faith in Christ is strictly a post Calvary thing. Pre-Calvary they had faith that He would come and post-Calvary we have faith that He has come.
Last edited by HalfNelson; 07-08-2010 at 04:51 PM..
Reason: grammer correction
"But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." (ACTS13:14)
"For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him." (ACTS 13:27)
"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. (ACTS 13:42)
"And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." (ACTS 13:44)
"For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." (ACTS 15:21)
"And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." (ACTS 16:13)
"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures," (ACTS 17:2)
"And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." (ACTS 18:14)
So the book of the Acts of the Apostles clearly tells us that after Jesus, they still kept the sabbath, and preached throughout the world on the sabbath day!!
So why do we ignore the fourth commandment which tells us to remember His sabbath and to keep it HOLY??
Just something to ponder!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
Don't forget that Sabbath (the mark of the God's people, according to some) falls on a Sunday (the mark of the beast according to some) in our necks of woods (we're a day late)...then half of the world will condemn us for being defiers of the 4th commandment...especially from the very places where you perceived it preached...
Something to ponder upon...
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