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Old 07-08-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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The doctrine of the Nicloaitanes is about establishing a hierarchy over a church as in a governing body.

Not only does the Roman Catholic Church has this practise with the Pope serving as the head, but such similar practises are found in Protestant churches whereas Jesus is to be the Head of every church as He is to be the Head of every believer.

These scriptures below shows some of the errors in just how far the Gentile churches have gone astray in these latter days.

Matthew 20: 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Ephesians 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Colossians 1: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

That is why God hates the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

Revelation 2:12And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; 13I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Below and from a catholic source, one wonders if the prophecy of the above scriptures should take precedent in calling believers out of the RCC and catholicism to a personal reconcile relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Spanish exorcist addresses claims of Satanic influence in Vatican :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)


As it is, Protestant churches and those that attend, should not be sleeping anymore when some practises and word association have crept into the churches as well as from what was obviously carried over by Luther. Believers should start the pruning process by His grace and help that Martin Luther did not finish to stand apart from the RCC and from the works that denies Him as able to save by faith alone.

The fact that there can be no fellowship with works of darkness makes one wonders how His House can stand when divided like that? Answer: The Church as boasted by the RCC, is not the Church as the Pope is not the Head of it.

Ephesians 5: 1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth 10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Who would want to be affiliated with a church that has the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which God hates?

Who would want to be associated with a church by all rights in application is depicting the Vatican in Satan's seat as prophesied in Revelation?

Is not the idea of Satan trying to take the place of God brought about his fall? Then what is the Pope or any hierarchy established doing when they are taking the place as the Head of the Church that belongs only to Christ Jesus the Lord?

Will the Protestant churches remain unrepentant as well? Then may all believers in the RCC and the Protestant churches lean on Jesus for help to do this in standing apart from the world in being witnesses of the Son in keeping the faith:

2 Corinthians 6: 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:34 AM
 
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The doctrinine of the Nicolaitanes is not heirarchy of the churches , there is only two refernces that are NOT speculation of this doctrine of the nicolaitains one is in Revelation 2 were Jesus say to `` speak the sword or Word of God into their iniquity or issue through your mouth `` and the other is a early church father Tertullian who wrote in 107 AD``I do not aim at destroying the happiness of sanctity, as do certain Nicolaitans in their maintenance of lust and luxury``...... see if believers were stuck under these leaders of Nicolaitans through control that would be a heirarchy problem, but does not condemn all heirarchy or Church government because of these nicolaitanes who sinned against the Word of God .... See church government are a blessing for Jesus and his purposes and bring stability for heaven that the work of the lamb continues ..... The will of God here is to pray for your church leader and you support will stop the condemnation....... Father I ask for forgiveness for the sins of your Churches and their leaders ... I plead the blood of Jesus over all your Churchs and command sound Judgement for their betterment of your Churches for your victory In Jesus name .....
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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"Moreover, to hate the works of the Nicolaitanes, which He Himself also hated, this tends to praise. But the works of the Nicolaitanes were in that time false and troublesome men, who, as ministers under the name of Nicolaus, had made for themselves a heresy, to the effect that what had been offered to idols might be exorcised and eaten, and that whoever should have committed fornication might receive peace on the eighth day. Therefore He extols those to whom He is writing; and to these men, being such and so great, He promised the tree of life, which is in the paradise of His God. "

...

"Thus, says He, ye have among you those who hold such doctrine; and under the pretext of mercy, you would corrupt others"

ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The doctrinine of the Nicolaitanes is not heirarchy of the churches , there is only two refernces that are NOT speculation of this doctrine of the nicolaitains one is in Revelation 2 were Jesus say to `` speak the sword or Word of God into their iniquity or issue through your mouth `` and the other is a early church father Tertullian who wrote in 107 AD``I do not aim at destroying the happiness of sanctity, as do certain Nicolaitans in their maintenance of lust and luxury``...... see if believers were stuck under these leaders of Nicolaitans through control that would be a heirarchy problem, but does not condemn all heirarchy or Church government because of these nicolaitanes who sinned against the Word of God ....
There is a doctrine of the Nicolaitanes and there is the deeds of the Nicolaitanes.

Revelation 2:6But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Revelation 2:15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

Those are two different things and you did refer them.

This here as per your quote:

Quote:
this doctrine of the nicolaitains one is in Revelation 2 were Jesus say to `` speak the sword or Word of God into their iniquity or issue through your mouth ``
That is the same thing as the hierarchy established in having authority to rule over others. In other words or by application, speaking catholicism as if that is the Word of God and using that as a means to rule over others is what Jesus spoke against. That is the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.

As per this reference:

Quote:
and the other is a early church father Tertullian who wrote in 107 AD``I do not aim at destroying the happiness of sanctity, as do certain Nicolaitans in their maintenance of lust and luxury``......
That is applicable towards the deeds of the Nicloaitans, although I had not been aquainted nor informed that luxury was a part of it.

Quote:
See church government are a blessing for Jesus and his purposes and bring stability for heaven that the work of the lamb continues ..... The will of God here is to pray for your church leader and you support will stop the condemnation....... Father I ask for forgiveness for the sins of your Churches and their leaders ... I plead the blood of Jesus over all your Churchs and command sound Judgement for their betterment of your Churches for your victory In Jesus name .....
The disciples has established elders and deacons as church government: nothing above them: There should be no arch bishop or anything that would slowly transform and become this which Jesus hated:

Matthew 23:1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. 13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

That is what the RCC has become, because per their catechism, even after water baptism and becoming a member of the "Church", and even after doing all the seven sacraments... if they do not perservere in charity, they cannot be saved. What a rip off of the Gospel.

Protestant churches need to prune words and practises to no longer be associated with them because if they do not, they may find themselves sliding over to the side of the RCC as the Lutherans have done in its ecumenical accord, failing to see why they had ever departed in the first place. And since Jesuits were created to bring Protestants back into the fold, what better way than use a higher heirarchy to infiltrate and rule?
Jesus knows what He was talking about:

Matthew 20: 25But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The idea of being an elder or a deacon in a church is to serve.

The idea of an overhead ruler not in the church is hardly a servant. That is why Christ is the Head of the church and over every individual believer.

Thank you for sharing your response.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
"Moreover, to hate the works of the Nicolaitanes, which He Himself also hated, this tends to praise. But the works of the Nicolaitanes were in that time false and troublesome men, who, as ministers under the name of Nicolaus, had made for themselves a heresy, to the effect that what had been offered to idols might be exorcised and eaten, and that whoever should have committed fornication might receive peace on the eighth day. Therefore He extols those to whom He is writing; and to these men, being such and so great, He promised the tree of life, which is in the paradise of His God. "

...

"Thus, says He, ye have among you those who hold such doctrine; and under the pretext of mercy, you would corrupt others"

ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Thank you for sharing the link and more on the deeds of the Nicolaitanes.

The link refers to those that say they are Jews but are not: thus indicative as far as prophecy goes of the RCC that started the whole "replacement theology", but have successfully deferred as being the originator... but they did fail to cover all of its tracks because it is well known of the Vatican's desire to move its central headquarters from the Vatican to Jerusalem thus the fruit of the replacement theology teaching.

One can definitely say that the RCC corrupts others by voiding their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness by other means to which to obtain mercy.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Thank you for sharing the link and more on the deeds of the Nicolaitanes.

The link refers to those that say they are Jews but are not: thus indicative as far as prophecy goes of the RCC that started the whole "replacement theology", but have successfully deferred as being the originator... but they did fail to cover all of its tracks because it is well known of the Vatican's desire to move its central headquarters from the Vatican to Jerusalem thus the fruit of the replacement theology teaching.

One can definitely say that the RCC corrupts others by voiding their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness by other means to which to obtain mercy.
What "other means" are you referring to?
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:51 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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One can definitely say that the RCC corrupts others by voiding their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness by other means to which to obtain mercy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
What "other means" are you referring to?
What stands in the way of believers coming to Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of sins as presented by the RCC as a means to obtain mercy?

The confessional.

Does it end there after confessing to a preist? Not always. Penance is needed for the forgiveness of sins, but yet...

1 John 1: 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What stands in the way of believers coming to Jesus Christ for salvation as presented by the RCC as a means to obtain?

Becoming a member of the RCC, doing the seven sacraments... and the perserverance of charity: otherwise, they cannot be saved.

So by the means by which the RCC offers to obtain mercy, they corrupt others from their faith in Jesus Christ as their Saviour Whom is able to save them by faith in Him alone apart from the deeds of the law and thus also apart fom the deeds of catholicism.

Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world......9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus never gave an invitation to come to the Church to be saved. Jesus gave His invitations to come to Himself to be saved as only God can.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Originally Posted by Enow View Post
One can definitely say that the RCC corrupts others by voiding their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness by other means to which to obtain mercy.



What stands in the way of believers coming to Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of sins as presented by the RCC as a means to obtain mercy?

The confessional.

Does it end there after confessing to a preist? Not always. Penance is needed for the forgiveness of sins, but yet...

1 John 1: 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What stands in the way of believers coming to Jesus Christ for salvation as presented by the RCC as a means to obtain?

Becoming a member of the RCC, doing the seven sacraments... and the perserverance of charity: otherwise, they cannot be saved.

So by the means by which the RCC offers to obtain mercy, they corrupt others from their faith in Jesus Christ as their Saviour Whom is able to save them by faith in Him alone apart from the deeds of the law and thus also apart fom the deeds of catholicism.

Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world......9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Jesus never gave an invitation to come to the Church to be saved. Jesus gave His invitations to come to Himself to be saved as only God can.

That's what i thought you'd say.

Was hoping for more articulate condemnation.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Thank you for sharing the link and more on the deeds of the Nicolaitanes.

The link refers to those that say they are Jews but are not: thus indicative as far as prophecy goes of the RCC that started the whole "replacement theology", but have successfully deferred as being the originator... but they did fail to cover all of its tracks because it is well known of the Vatican's desire to move its central headquarters from the Vatican to Jerusalem thus the fruit of the replacement theology teaching.

One can definitely say that the RCC corrupts others by voiding their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness by other means to which to obtain mercy.
I don't believe there is anything in the scriptures that specifically targets the RCC. Also, I don't believe the doctrine applies to the RCC.

It specifically shows that the deeds of the nicoltains is one in which someone believes that they are simply saved in their hearts and asks for confession and because of that confession (lip service) they will be saved. This is why it says that under the pretext of mercy they corrupt others. The RCC makes it clear that they don't believe that way but instead believe one must give up sinful ways. So the RCC is actually teaching contrary to the doctrine of the nicolatains.

A church that teaches that your are saved by simply believing and not by doing is the ones actually teaching the doctrine of the nicolatains.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
That's what i thought you'd say.

Was hoping for more articulate condemnation.
If I say to you that because you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead that you are saved: how is that condemning you?

But if the RCC condemns you as one not quite saved yet even if you become a member of the RCC, do the seven sacraments, but do not perservere in charity.... I fail to see how you do not see that articulate condemnation as being given by the RCC.

All believers in Jesus Christ have been bought with a price and sealed as His thus they are saved. It is the extras that comes along that voids faith in Him and divides that hope with other means to obtain that which was freely given by God through faith in Jesus Christ.

It is not only the RCC that harbors labouring in unbelief, but the Protestant churches has it as well with the commitment to follow Christ as a means for the assurance of salvation.

Even the Pentecostal and charismatic circles have the false teaching of seeking to be filled by the Holy Spirit again as if that signature of glory would be shared at any other time than at the time of one's salvation by Jesus Christ. Truly, asking for the Holy Spirit when they have already received Him at salvation is labouring in unbelief as well and a false witness of the Gospel.

So Jesus warning of false prophets coming in applies to the body of believers and the doctrine of the Niocolaitanes should by His grace, wake everyone up to discern where they are right now in their walk with the Lord in being a witness of the Good News because one cannot be such a witness if they are also saying that they are not saved yet.

But the whole idea of being bought with a price whereas your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit is highly indicative that you are His and thus saved, but if one takes their eyes off of Jesus to something else as a means to obtain, then they are no longer resting in Jesus when they came to Him for salvation but voiding faith by labouring in unbelief.

Thus the call to every believer is to depart from iniquity because God knows everyone that are His even if their faith are overthrown.

2 Timothy 2:18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

So seek a personal relationship with God through the Son, Jesus Christ by departing from all those being a thief that seek to be the means to Him.

John 10: 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8Allthat ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

I believe Jesus, and I thank Him that I am trusting Him on His Word.
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