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Old 07-09-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,104,768 times
Reputation: 2274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because I know the truth, I cannot be deceived by those who have themselves been deceived by Satan. I stand in the truth of the word of God. And I pronounce universalism to be straight out of the mouth of Satan.
And of cause we should bow down to your superior knowledge received at the feet of those who have deceived the masses for centuries .

Tell me this

How much more valuable is a man than a sheep ?

Did Jesus not say we would take hold of and lift a sheep out of a ditch on a sabbath day of all days ,well how much more do you think God will be willing to take hold of the hand of man and lift him out of the miry clay he's in ?, or would He just pass His neighbor by like the priest and Levite ?

Come on get real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh i forgot sheep don't have free will but we do

 
Old 07-09-2010, 07:20 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,557,800 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because I know the truth, I cannot be deceived by those who have themselves been deceived by Satan. I stand in the truth of the word of God. And I pronounce universalism to be straight out of the mouth of Satan.

Final comment!!! I have no need to get the last word in.
The bottom line is that ET'ers do not possess the courage to consider that what they have been taught is wrong and ultimately makes no sense.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 07:46 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,637 posts, read 30,247,401 times
Reputation: 30179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because I know the truth, I cannot be deceived by those who have themselves been deceived by Satan. I stand in the truth of the word of God. And I pronounce universalism to be straight out of the mouth of Satan.

Final comment!!! I have no need to get the last word in.
And you are right Mike! Too many are deceived by satan about this.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,104,768 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
And you are right Mike! Too many are deceived by satan about this.
I agree they are , like ans57 just said, they lack courage to be open about what they believe .

Throughout my whole walk with God i have never claimed to know it all , like some on here claim to , speaking from my own personal experience the Lord has changed much of what i believe , most of it resulting in my heart being softened , and much of it before i ever believed in UR.

How much more valuable is a man than a sheep ? (I like this quote by Jesus)
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:00 PM
 
5,806 posts, read 4,788,205 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Learning to listen to your heart and you conscience instead of the traditions of men which are shoved down our throats in Sunday school is a difficult thing to do ... But God speaks to us through our conscience, and if our conscience doesnt agree with everlasting torment of most people, or even one single person, maybe, just maybe, the spirit is trying to tell us something?

Let those who have an ear hear what the spirit is saying ...



I'm glad you're at least considering these things honestly Thrillobyte. Whatever conclusion you end up at, i respect for that ...


God bless bro ...

Me too, thrillobyte.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:01 PM
 
11,239 posts, read 11,262,240 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What Christ accomplished on the Cross makes salvation available to whosoever believes in Him for salvation (John 3:16). The Scriptures are equally clear that all who reject Christ as Savior are eternally lost (John 3:36; Matthew 25:41, 46; Rev 20:11-15, and many others).
We are still left with the extremely dicey fact that 90% of humanity past present and future will go to hell, most because they never had an adequate exposure to Jesus and His gift to man. I cannot get my mind around Adam having caused the downfall of 100% of mankind and Jesus pulling only 10% (let's not quibble about the accuracy of the percentage--it's low by anyone's standard) out of perdition. This is not victory by any rational person's definition of victory. If we ET'ers are going to say that acceptance of Jesus is the criteria by which man is saved or lost, then fine---I'll run with that; but we've got to come up with a solution that does not send the vast majority of mankind to eternal torment because, against his will he was born into sin and because (if we accept the notion that only the HS can bring a man to repentance, which complicates the matter further) that he never had a fighting chance to come to Christ to begin with. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

And thanks to all for your heartfelt encouragement in my struggle with coming to grips with this thorny issue. I know I've ruffled a lot of feathers with my commentary about the rapture. I'm the first to admit I get carried away at times. My apologies to those I offended. I'll try to hold my tongue.....er, fingers on this equally thorny issue, especially now that it's been flogged to death.
 
Old 07-09-2010, 10:41 PM
 
21,839 posts, read 16,687,197 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
We are still left with the extremely dicey fact that 90% of humanity past present and future will go to hell, most because they never had an adequate exposure to Jesus and His gift to man. I cannot get my mind around Adam having caused the downfall of 100% of mankind and Jesus pulling only 10% (let's not quibble about the accuracy of the percentage--it's low by anyone's standard) out of perdition. This is not victory by any rational person's definition of victory. If we ET'ers are going to say that acceptance of Jesus is the criteria by which man is saved or lost, then fine---I'll run with that; but we've got to come up with a solution that does not send the vast majority of mankind to eternal torment because, against his will he was born into sin and because (if we accept the notion that only the HS can bring a man to repentance, which complicates the matter further) that he never had a fighting chance to come to Christ to begin with. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

And thanks to all for your heartfelt encouragement in my struggle with coming to grips with this thorny issue. I know I've ruffled a lot of feathers with my commentary about the rapture. I'm the first to admit I get carried away at times. My apologies to those I offended. I'll try to hold my tongue.....er, fingers on this equally thorny issue, especially now that it's been flogged to death.

To the contrary. 'We' do not have to come up with any solution. And it is the word of God that declares over and over that belief in Christ is the criteria by which man may avoid the lake of fire. The solution to avoiding the lake of fire is to believe in Christ. All who reject Christ are eternally lost. If that's the majority of the human race, then that's the way it is. The Gospel is presented so that man has a chance to believe in Christ. God will see to it that all who want to know more about God at the point of God consciousness will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel message. The invitation to accept the free gift of salvation is extended to all. The Holy Spirit makes the issue clear to the hearer. If the hearer rejects the Gospel message it is his own fault that he ends up in hell. That's the reality of the situation. And man's acceptance or rejection of that reality does not affect the fact of its reality.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
 
Old 07-10-2010, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,719,899 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Amen!!! But the good news is that:

8The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.

Ps. 103:8-10

 
Old 07-10-2010, 12:42 AM
 
11,239 posts, read 11,262,240 times
Reputation: 3447
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Amen!!! But the good news is that:

8The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.

Ps. 103:8-10

This is a good start at marrying the two extremes. Mike's belief that if it's God's will that 90% of man goes to hell then that's the way it's got to be is a bit too cavalier for my tastes. I know God ultimately is the Judge, but how can we as rational, feeling, caring, empathetic beings actually surpass God in these emotions? And isn't that what's happening when we can weep for a lost soul and God cannot? If we are capable of feeling even an infinitesimal amount of the love God claims to feel for His creation then how is possible by any definition we have of caring and compassionate that God could do this to His children? Nope. Sorry, Mike, it just does not pass the smell test. (smilie for shaking head "no")
 
Old 07-10-2010, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,670,144 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
We are still left with the extremely dicey fact that 90% of humanity past present and future will go to hell, most because they never had an adequate exposure to Jesus and His gift to man. I cannot get my mind around Adam having caused the downfall of 100% of mankind and Jesus pulling only 10% (let's not quibble about the accuracy of the percentage--it's low by anyone's standard) out of perdition. This is not victory by any rational person's definition of victory. If we ET'ers are going to say that acceptance of Jesus is the criteria by which man is saved or lost, then fine---I'll run with that; but we've got to come up with a solution that does not send the vast majority of mankind to eternal torment because, against his will he was born into sin and because (if we accept the notion that only the HS can bring a man to repentance, which complicates the matter further) that he never had a fighting chance to come to Christ to begin with. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

And thanks to all for your heartfelt encouragement in my struggle with coming to grips with this thorny issue. I know I've ruffled a lot of feathers with my commentary about the rapture. I'm the first to admit I get carried away at times. My apologies to those I offended. I'll try to hold my tongue.....er, fingers on this equally thorny issue, especially now that it's been flogged to death.
You said it here (and it will no doubt be ignored)...

Quote:
I cannot get my mind around Adam having caused the downfall of 100% of mankind and Jesus pulling only 10% (let's not quibble about the accuracy of the percentage--it's low by anyone's standard) out of perdition. This is not victory by any rational person's definition of victory.
That is the 'elite' .. Catholics solve this by having purgatory (right?) and some have multiple hells... but you are right.

Adam's 100% is much more that Jesus' 10%... why is that?
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