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So it really is ADAM/SIN 100% effectiveness and Jesus/God 10%.... Sounds like Jesus really accomplished the salvation of the whole world alright!
I am not understanding what you are trying to say here. Could you please break it done a bit more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
It is to God's glory to save all... especially the most horrible sinner (think Saul of Tarsus).
With man salvation is IMPOSSIBLE but with God it is NON-NEGOTIABLE.
It is never to God's glory to force a person to love Him. If Salvation is non-negotiable why does John 3:16 say that Christ died so that whoever would believe in Him shall not parish? IF it is non-negotiable why are we still here 2000 years after the cross? What is the point of any warning to stay away from sin? Why not get into the porn business and make billions of dollars doing whatever I want, or become a career criminal stealing whatever I want? I mean in the end it won't matter because I'm saved either way. The concept of UR cheapens God's grace and Christ's death on the cross in very profound ways. Why is there any mention in the Bible about the lost if there is ultimately never going to be any that are lost? Seems like a big waist of time then. If it is non-negotiable why even give Adam/Eve a choice in the Garden of Eden? Our choices are ultimately irrelevant if salvation is forced on everyone. If God wanted programed automatons following Him around He could have made us that way from the beginning, but God knows that is not love. Love is making a choice, for Him. Not because you are forced to but because you genuinely love Him. Love can never be forced, if it were it would cease to be love. How many people here would want to marry a person who was forced into marring them, despite clearly indicating they wanted nothing to do with you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
This universe will never see a time when pain and torment do not exist... IMO UNLESS we all follow God's ways... Love one another.
When this universe finally sees that time where pain/torment no longer exist, everyone alive will have CHOSEN to follow God's ways (His 10C) and will clearly love one another.
How can both annihilation and eternal torment be true?
If one is annihilated then one cannot be tormented for ever ...
Again you are not making any sense.
How is it that you are not aware of this fact?
Your "Cavalier" support and defense of hell and eternal torment/everlasting evil is despicable.
I thank God for your obstinate teachings ... I believe that your posts do more to convince people of the falsehood of ET than many of the posts of those of us who teach UR do.
Thank you Sciotamicks, for helping us in spite of yourself. The spirit moves in mysterious ways ...
No Ironmaw, what is a contradiction is Universalism...to the core of it.
Call me all the names you want Ironmaw...but UR is so far from the scriptrues of the Holy Writ, that you too, will have to answer for your teachings.
You fail in every regard in this plight.
You can have both, as I will show, sometime next week.
Laughable.What proof do you have that S Americans,N Americans,Australians,Chinese etc etc had any knowledge of the Abrahamic God before around 1600 AD?
What proof do you have that they don't?
And second...we aren't talking about the title of Abraham God, or the covenant Jewish poilicies...did Job know of the Abraham God? Did Rahab? Did the prince of Salem? They knew God..the unseen One, the All powerful...that one....What about the Greeks and the unknown God?
I am not understanding what you are trying to say here. Could you please break it done a bit more?
Sure! If we are keeping score with souls saved... and we assume that 100% of humans are affected by Adam's sin... then we look at how effective the salvation of God is... it appears that Jesus didn't conquer Adam's sin at all.. so the gift of grace really isn't able to conquer sin... right? who wins? God certainly doesn't if he only saves 10% of humans but 100% are declared sinners.
Quote:
It is never to God's glory to force a person to love Him. If Salvation is non-negotiable why does John 3:16 say that Christ died so that whoever would believe in Him shall not parish? IF it is non-negotiable why are we still here 2000 years after the cross? What is the point of any warning to stay away from sin? Why not get into the porn business and make billions of dollars doing whatever I want, or become a career criminal stealing whatever I want? I mean in the end it won't matter because I'm saved either way. The concept of UR cheapens God's grace and Christ's death on the cross in very profound ways. Why is there any mention in the Bible about the lost if there is ultimately never going to be any that are lost? Seems like a big waist of time then. If it is non-negotiable why even give Adam/Eve a choice in the Garden of Eden? Our choices are ultimately irrelevant if salvation is forced on everyone. If God wanted programed automatons following Him around He could have made us that way from the beginning, but God knows that is not love. Love is making a choice, for Him. Not because you are forced to but because you genuinely love Him. Love can never be forced, if it were it would cease to be love. How many people here would want to marry a person who was forced into marring them, despite clearly indicating they wanted nothing to do with you?
What does loving God have to do with being saved from sin?
Quote:
When this universe finally sees that time where pain/torment no longer exist, everyone alive will have CHOSEN to follow God's ways (His 10C) and will clearly love one another.
What proof do you have that they don't?
And second...we aren't talking about the title of Abraham God, or the covenant Jewish poilicies...did Job know of the Abraham God? Did Rahab? Did the prince of Salem? They knew God..the unseen One, the All powerful...that one....What about the Greeks and the unknown God?
You fail again.
They knew God then they believed and were saved... right?
Upset about what? Nope, not upset at all. Quite obviously you are one of those people who do not know how many walk away.
On the contrary to your claim, more and more people come to Christ when they hear the gospel. So the opposite of what you say is true.
One of those people?LOL.Who knows how many people do?You certainly don't either.But anyone who bothers to read at sites like this knows that a lot of people reject the kind of fearful,fire insurance Christianity you peddle.
I guess some people would rather preach fear than love.They must not trust that love is enough.
No Ironmaw, what is a contradiction is Universalism...to the core of it.
Call me all the names you want Ironmaw...but UR is so far from the scriptrues of the Holy Writ, that you too, will have to answer for your teachings.
You fail in every regard in this plight.
You can have both, as I will show, sometime next week.
What name did i call you?
I do not fail, already Ilene has come to the truth of UR on this forum, and there are others who are beginning to come as well.
We are winning ... We will win in the end, as God is the savior of all people and will have all people to be saved. No contradiction there ...
As Paul said....they are without excuse. I didn't write it.
I just believe it. Something you cannot do. But that is entirely up to you.
You have heard it...and you reject it. The scriptures tells us about people like you...in great detail.
Who is without excuse? The WORLD?
But don't you define THE WORLD as the Jewish people?
LOL Sciota... I love to see you change the meaning of a word to fit the context and then in another instance state that it really does mean WORLD...
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