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Old 07-10-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,978 times
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Just curious to see the thoughts of my fellow forumites on
"the sin of presumption"

Last edited by june 7th; 07-10-2010 at 10:47 AM.. Reason: Don't you want to include the link, though???
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:00 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,573,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Just curious to see the thoughts of my fellow forumites on
"the sin of presumption"
Quoted from the catechism:

Quote:
"There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit." Pg. 507, #2092
This is assuming as those that disagree with once saved always saved that salvation by faith in Jesus Christ is a license to sin. It is not.

Quoted from the King James Bible:

1 John 5: 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Romans 3: 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Colossians 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What are those good works that is seperate from how one is saved?

1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13: 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Why is loving one another is important for abiding in Him?

John 13: 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

As we are to be witnesses of the Good News, we cannot be that if we are not saved yet, now can we?

And certainly, we cannot love others including our enemies unless Jesus Christ is in us to enable us to.

That is why salvation is a free gift so that no one can boast in Heaven like a religious stuck up, but give glory to God in Jesus Christ as Our Saviour.

It is being a witness of Him in our lives that is the necessity to love one another as we live by faith in Him to provide us the love we need to do so. This is the good works that God the Father has ordained that we should have walked in them from the beginning: good works is not about earning that salvation to be His for we are His when you have the seal of adoption so you can call God, Father.

To abide in Him as a faithful witness is the glory of being a vessel unto honour in God's House when the Bridegroom comes for the chaste bride.

Those left behind for labouring in unbelief or living the wild life in sin will be chastened by the Father as He is their Father to do so as all believers in Jesus Christ are saved as His, but not all will be ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

So depart from catholicism today and rest in Jesus Christ as Your Saviour while at the same time, trusting Him to be Your Good Shepherd in helping you live as His in that personal reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ since He will lead us away from temptations and deliver us from the evil one because that is what it means to trust the Lord at His word that sin shall not have dominion over our lives anymore to be a slave to them.

So it is presumptuous on the part of the RCC to assume that everyone that comes to Jesus Christ by faith for salvation are looking to use Him as a license to sin.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him: John 6:44 and those that prefer to sin rather than come to the light to be reproved by Him, the Father would not bother to draw them to the Son. The fact that they believe shows the work of God in their lives in wanting to be His.

John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Is it not strange how the RCC uses the sin of presumptions to take away the glory of Jesus Christ being the Saviour? And yet, the bait and switch tactic is lost among catholics from this catholic saying I have heard:

If you come across a man dying in a desert, tell them the Good News that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. But if you are not dying in the desert, God gives more grace by providing the opportunity to be a member of the RCC, and doing the seven sacraments, and etc. and ect. as the gist of this catholic saying goes by recollection.

If I was a devout catholic, I would wonder why God didn't have me be that guy dying in the desert, because no matter how much penance I can do, I would have never have the assurance that I was ready to meet my Maker. As it is... I take His words in reproving that as a work of darkness.

Romans 11:5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

God cannot give more grace by engaging a believer in the works of catholicism for salvation because otherwise, that would make Him the greatest Indian Giver of all time, taking back the free gift of eternal life.

So by His grace, I take His words over the "interpretations" of the RCC anyday. I can only hope that God will set you free to rest in Him and thus returning to your first love to have the joy of your salvation restored to you once again in knowing you are His simply by believing in the Son of God.

1 John 5: 1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. ... 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:51 PM
 
7,813 posts, read 10,707,854 times
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Default June presuming presumption....John 6:40

June has the feeling it would be presumptive of her to presume that she even knows, much less fully understands "presumption." However, in order to post anything, June has to presume that her ignorant presumption as regards "Presumption" will somehow be tolerated. --So she presumes, in advance, that you know where her presumptive "just June" self is coming from...

That being said, isn't it written in the bible that those who have faith will be saved, and go to heaven? If it's written in the bible (and June knows it is, which is not her presumption, as she's read it herself) then it seems to June that it isn't presumptuous to take what Jesus said in the bible on faith.

And take that to the non-presumptive bank, so to speak.

It is, after all, called "faith."

(Yes? No?)



Take gentle presumptous care.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Quoted from the catechism:



This is assuming as those that disagree with once saved always saved that salvation by faith in Jesus Christ is a license to sin. It is not.

Quoted from the King James Bible:

1 John 5: 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Romans 3: 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Colossians 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What are those good works that is seperate from how one is saved?

1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13: 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Why is loving one another is important for abiding in Him?

John 13: 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

As we are to be witnesses of the Good News, we cannot be that if we are not saved yet, now can we?

And certainly, we cannot love others including our enemies unless Jesus Christ is in us to enable us to.

That is why salvation is a free gift so that no one can boast in Heaven like a religious stuck up, but give glory to God in Jesus Christ as Our Saviour.

It is being a witness of Him in our lives that is the necessity to love one another as we live by faith in Him to provide us the love we need to do so. This is the good works that God the Father has ordained that we should have walked in them from the beginning: good works is not about earning that salvation to be His for we are His when you have the seal of adoption so you can call God, Father.

To abide in Him as a faithful witness is the glory of being a vessel unto honour in God's House when the Bridegroom comes for the chaste bride.

Those left behind for labouring in unbelief or living the wild life in sin will be chastened by the Father as He is their Father to do so as all believers in Jesus Christ are saved as His, but not all will be ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

So depart from catholicism today and rest in Jesus Christ as Your Saviour while at the same time, trusting Him to be Your Good Shepherd in helping you live as His in that personal reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ since He will lead us away from temptations and deliver us from the evil one because that is what it means to trust the Lord at His word that sin shall not have dominion over our lives anymore to be a slave to them.

So it is presumptuous on the part of the RCC to assume that everyone that comes to Jesus Christ by faith for salvation are looking to use Him as a license to sin.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him: John 6:44 and those that prefer to sin rather than come to the light to be reproved by Him, the Father would not bother to draw them to the Son. The fact that they believe shows the work of God in their lives in wanting to be His.

John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Is it not strange how the RCC uses the sin of presumptions to take away the glory of Jesus Christ being the Saviour? And yet, the bait and switch tactic is lost among catholics from this catholic saying I have heard:

If you come across a man dying in a desert, tell them the Good News that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. But if you are not dying in the desert, God gives more grace by providing the opportunity to be a member of the RCC, and doing the seven sacraments, and etc. and ect. as the gist of this catholic saying goes by recollection.

If I was a devout catholic, I would wonder why God didn't have me be that guy dying in the desert, because no matter how much penance I can do, I would have never have the assurance that I was ready to meet my Maker. As it is... I take His words in reproving that as a work of darkness.

Romans 11:5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

God cannot give more grace by engaging a believer in the works of catholicism for salvation because otherwise, that would make Him the greatest Indian Giver of all time, taking back the free gift of eternal life.

So by His grace, I take His words over the "interpretations" of the RCC anyday. I can only hope that God will set you free to rest in Him and thus returning to your first love to have the joy of your salvation restored to you once again in knowing you are His simply by believing in the Son of God.

1 John 5: 1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. ... 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

You presume the Church is speaking of all believers.
It's not.
The sin of presumption is directed at pride, ingratitude, and entitlement.
All of which are contrary to faith, hope, and charity.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:49 AM
 
8,107 posts, read 7,078,665 times
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When Believers get saved they must turn , repent and be baptised, and most believer will continue to sin, because of lack of understanding and ignorance, but will continue to be saved, because Jesus Spirit will continue to work on his believers, when Christians sin when they know better and thumb their nose at Jesus and Jesus know that they are deceiving Heaven then Holy Spirit will stop and let the demons pass to challenge that believer only in those area of sin.... So in worst cases where Holy Spirit is rejected and blaspheme and in turned faith in Jesus is pushed away then these Christians will lose their salvation and must turn back to Jesus and repent and be baptised again to find their salvation to Jesus Christ, but ministries will be lost and people returning must clean pride from their wine sack for new gifts of Holy Spirit to come.....
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:26 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
You presume the Church is speaking of all believers.
It's not.
The sin of presumption is directed at pride, ingratitude, and entitlement.
All of which are contrary to faith, hope, and charity.
And doing penance is a catholic way of thanking Jesus for forgiving them of their sins or is that an act of disbelief and ingratitude? Either Jesus forgives them of their sins and He is faithful and just to cleanse them from all unrighteousness or.. it is disbelief and ingratitude.

How can the effort in one's own penance keep pride from coming in as well? How does one believe they are entitled to that pride since they have done the penance to earn that forgiveness?
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:47 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
When Believers get saved they must turn , repent and be baptised, and most believer will continue to sin, because of lack of understanding and ignorance, but will continue to be saved, because Jesus Spirit will continue to work on his believers, when Christians sin when they know better and thumb their nose at Jesus and Jesus know that they are deceiving Heaven then Holy Spirit will stop and let the demons pass to challenge that believer only in those area of sin.... So in worst cases where Holy Spirit is rejected and blaspheme and in turned faith in Jesus is pushed away then these Christians will lose their salvation and must turn back to Jesus and repent and be baptised again to find their salvation to Jesus Christ, but ministries will be lost and people returning must clean pride from their wine sack for new gifts of Holy Spirit to come.....
You forget the power of God in salvation. When bought with a price and sealed as His, you cannot become unsaved: you are His.

It is not salvation that is being lost, but the first inheritance of being that vessel unto honour in God's House.

Look at what happens when one does not take heed how they build on that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3: 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire....

Now by His grace... read how this burning can reduce a believer to a damnation of being that vessel unto dishonour in God's House.

1 Corinthians 3: 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

That means the Holy Spirit isn't going anywhere: you are His.

1 Corinthians 6: 17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

To which believers are warned not to do this:

Ephesians 4:3And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So this preaching to receive the Holy Spirit again is not of the gsopel.

2 Corinthians 11: 1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

There is only one drink and ye are filled, sealed, and thus saved.

1 Corinthians 12: 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Only one baptism of the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus Christ at salvation. The glory of that baptism at salvation will not be repeated at any other time in a believer's life lest it steals away the glory of God in salvation which is found in Jesus Christ.

That is the same thing as saying there is only one hope of yiur calling and thus no other calling nor invitation to heed for we can rest in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

It is the simplicity of the Gospel that is being defended against the charge of the sin of presumptions as well as any teaching that suggests that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough for salvation.

So salvation is not at risk, but being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event is when judgment must fall on the House of God first so that when the Bridegroom receives the chaste bride, those left behind will be restored to the path of righeousness for His name's sake since the foolish virgins will have oil for their lamps and the prodigal sons will be returning as sons.

The high calling of Christ is to live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, trusting Him as we look unto the author and finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight and sin that so easily beset us so we can be kept from falling by Him and presented faultless to His glory by Him by the grace of God.

Thus the just shall live by faith in Him and all His promises to us. Believers need to realize the reality of the power of God in salvation upon believing.

Colossians 1: 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;....... 27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:28 AM
 
621 posts, read 1,053,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
When Believers get saved they must turn , repent and be baptised, and most believer will continue to sin, because of lack of understanding and ignorance, but will continue to be saved, because Jesus Spirit will continue to work on his believers, when Christians sin when they know better and thumb their nose at Jesus and Jesus know that they are deceiving Heaven then Holy Spirit will stop and let the demons pass to challenge that believer only in those area of sin.... So in worst cases where Holy Spirit is rejected and blaspheme and in turned faith in Jesus is pushed away then these Christians will lose their salvation and must turn back to Jesus and repent and be baptised again to find their salvation to Jesus Christ, but ministries will be lost and people returning must clean pride from their wine sack for new gifts of Holy Spirit to come.....
Sorry, but I seriously question that theological belief. If you read Romans 7:14-25, you'll find Paul struggling with sin. He said the good that he knew to do, he didn't do - but the evil he knew not to do, that is what he did. It wasn't out of lack of understanding or ignorance. The verses are clear that he knew there were things he did that were sinful, but he did them anyway. I hardly think the Holy Spirit stepped aside and allowed demons to challenge him. Repentance was there, most notably in his heart and spirit, but he didn't lose his salvation and he didn't need to be rebaptized.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
And doing penance is a catholic way of thanking Jesus for forgiving them of their sins or is that an act of disbelief and ingratitude? Either Jesus forgives them of their sins and He is faithful and just to cleanse them from all unrighteousness or.. it is disbelief and ingratitude.

How can the effort in one's own penance keep pride from coming in as well? How does one believe they are entitled to that pride since they have done the penance to earn that forgiveness?

Do you believe in guilt?

Do you believe that we become aware of sin? And then are to compelled ask for forgiveness and to repent?

Do you believe "repent" is a verb?
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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And doing penance is a catholic way of thanking Jesus for forgiving them of their sins or is that an act of disbelief and ingratitude? Either Jesus forgives them of their sins and He is faithful and just to cleanse them from all unrighteousness or.. it is disbelief and ingratitude.

How can the effort in one's own penance keep pride from coming in as well? How does one believe they are entitled to that pride since they have done the penance to earn that forgiveness?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Do you believe in guilt?

Do you believe that we become aware of sin? And then are to compelled ask for forgiveness and to repent?

Do you believe "repent" is a verb?
Repent is a verb: not a noun like penance.

Repent from unbelief to believing Him at His word is a start.

Guilt is what drives a believer to confess their sins to the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is disbelief and ingratitude when catholics do penance as if belief in His word that they are forgiven is not enough.

Just as it is disbelief and ingratitude when belief in Jesus Christ for salvation is not enough by looking to do something else for justification.

When Jesus appear, what will a catholic do? Draw back? Why not? When he or she has been taught to seek other means when encroaching death's door, why would they run to Jesus if their hope is divided from Him to their works? They will always doubt if they have done enough to be received by Him, but yet that was the whole point of God sending His Son so that by His Son we are reconciled to God.

Thieves have come in to place means to come to Jesus, but God sent only Jesus as the means to come to Him.
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