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Old 07-11-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,003,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Notice in that story of Legion, the "evil spirits" are cast into unclean animals (according to the Jews) and it is the animals that die? Does falling off a cliff destroy evil spirits too?

Something to think about....
We would wish.

Imagine a medium deciding to rid the world of the devil, calls forth Satan to be possessed and let somebody else blows up the medium by remote safe distance away.

"Yay! We killed Satan!"

Nope. That will not work.

Or...

"I command you, Satan, in the name of Jesus to be bound forever and cast into the lake of fire now."

God can only give that judgment at the appropriate time and being how He will say it in the future proves that it cannot happen sooner.

These evil spirits will just continue to seek whom they may devour till the appointed time.
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:23 PM
 
23,191 posts, read 11,405,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
So Brian, if one doesn't believe in Christ or any of the teachings of Christianty, how do the dynamics change? What is it working against, or has anyone who doesn't believe in Christ already succombed to Satan?
If you do not deny your drives and urges IF OR WHEN any other human being would be hurt or harmed by it . . . you are rejecting the inner Christ (Holy Spirit) . . . what you might call your conscience . . . and following the inner Serpent (Satan).

Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-11-2010 at 03:45 PM..
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:28 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I will not contend with you on such matters Enow . . . we are on different "intellectual planets." But We believe in Jesus and His Good News message of love and salvation . . . which should be enough as long as we "love God and each other."
It is enough to be made brothers by Him. Abiding in Him is another matter.

Since you do not wish to contend any further, I shall comply.
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 2,817,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
So Brian, if one doesn't believe in Christ or any of the teachings of Christianty, how do the dynamics change? What is it working against, or has anyone who doesn't believe in Christ already succombed to Satan?
Hi texas_dave11!
Well, according to what I have been re-reading (after years of setting it aside), we are all subject to the passions of the flesh, which is also the devil: covetousness, wrath, envy, bitterness, lust, etc. When God begins to draw us, or if we are hearing the message that without the Lord we have no hope of salvation, then we begin to wait and listen to the Spirit, which is the Father, which gives life to all living things; He will begin to subdue all that is of this devil/flesh through His own power: we begin to see righteousness, peace, patience, love and reason begin to rise up. This is Christ in us, our only hope of glory. Christ far away will not save. It is only Christ the Seed which was laid in the earth (us) 2,000 years ago, which must rise, and our flesh diminish.
We can see clearly how the church today still does not recognize Christ in them, and so they are as deceived as others.

I hope I was able to help somewhat.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:22 PM
 
613 posts, read 369,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I think it's reasonable to believe that our old nature which we inherited from the fall of Adam is actually Satan.

Yeah , but don't do what I did. I punched my old nature thinking I could keep it in line. Man, that smarted.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:42 PM
 
309 posts, read 186,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
See, here is something interesting:

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Here sin is defined as that which has come forth - originating not from some crazy other being called "Satan" but rather from within. Yet we read also that the works of the devil is sin:

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So here we have an association of the works of Satan originating from within man.

So when I see that it says that Jesus was tempted of Satan, then what I believe it means is that He was tempted by the lusts that were originating in His own mind and yet He didn't allow those lusts to "conceive" and "bring forth".

From that perspective (knowing how much power He had), it because very obvious that the more power you have that the more restraint you must show - the more weight of obedience your under.

Even Peter was called Satan. Not because Satan was another creepy being with a pitchfork but because Peter was exhibiting the disobedient nature born from his own thoughts.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

I believe in that verse - is Satan - in that it refers to the "spirit" that works in those children of disobedience.
Interesting Trettep.....hmmm....
and I say again....hmmm...
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: RI
19,397 posts, read 9,533,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Yeah , but don't do what I did. I punched my old nature thinking I could keep it in line. Man, that smarted.
I agree Zero 7 , the old man never worries me in the slightest , when it raises it's ugly head i am never suprised anymore .
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
We would wish.

Imagine a medium deciding to rid the world of the devil, calls forth Satan to be possessed and let somebody else blows up the medium by remote safe distance away.

"Yay! We killed Satan!"

Nope. That will not work.

Or...

"I command you, Satan, in the name of Jesus to be bound forever and cast into the lake of fire now."

God can only give that judgment at the appropriate time and being how He will say it in the future proves that it cannot happen sooner.

These evil spirits will just continue to seek whom they may devour till the appointed time.
So Jesus cast out spirits so they could go bug other people?

Also notice how the men in the boat wonder that his MIND is better. He was INSANE! If the man believed the spirits were haunting him because he was INSANE then wouldn't it make sense to "cast them out"...

Why do you think the pigs had to die?
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,003,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So Jesus cast out spirits so they could go bug other people?
How many times was Satan casted out?

Matthew 16:23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luke 22:3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

If Satan was in Peter and was catsed out, then how was he able to enter into Judas later on?

And if evil spirits die when the living thing dies, then how can Satan be around for the great tribulation and be thrown in the pit afterwards for a thousand years? If Satan entered Judas and Judas committed suicide, then Satan still being free to oppress and to tempt would clear the air that killing a possessed person will not kill the devil.

So as far as Jesus casting them out just so they could bug other people: apparantly, there is a void where they are detained for a bit, but
they are in chains of darkness until the appointed time of judgement. They cannot be judged as in comdemned sooner, but they can be judged as in rebuked now until the appointed time for them to be cast into the lake of fire when they will never bug anyone again.

***Believers should note the promise of greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world, unless you suffer a thief to break through by opening yourself up to receiving another spirit, including any one that has been misled into thinking they need to receive the Holy Spirit again, thus suffering a thief to break through.

Wayward believers need to narrow the way back to the straight gate by returning to their first love, Jesus Christ, in holding unto the love of the truth that we have received the sanctification of the Spirit upon salvation, and cannot be received again lest they bear false testimony as if the Father gave them a stone instead of bread or a serpent instead of a fish. No one should be asking for the Holy Spirit again once they had received Him.

How does one receive Him? By trusting Jesus Christ as the Saviour:

Ephesians 1:11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the promise at salvation by which Jesus Christ is glorified by for being Our Saviour. This baptism cannot happen at any other time lest it takes away the glory of Jesus Christ at salvation.***

Quote:
Also notice how the men in the boat wonder that his MIND is better. He was INSANE! If the man believed the spirits were haunting him because he was INSANE then wouldn't it make sense to "cast them out"...
You may have to clarify that statement. Reads as if you are saying the spirits were haunting the man because he was insane???

Quote:
Why do you think the pigs had to die?
Since the devil seeks whom he may devour, and as sin is self destructive, we can see just how much faster the devil can make any living thing go.
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,824,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
How many times was Satan casted out?

Matthew 16:23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luke 22:3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

If Satan was in Peter and was catsed out, then how was he able to enter into Judas later on?

And if evil spirits die when the living thing dies, then how can Satan be around for the great tribulation and be thrown in the pit afterwards for a thousand years? If Satan entered Judas and Judas committed suicide, then Satan still being free to oppress and to tempt would clear the air that killing a possessed person will not kill the devil.

So as far as Jesus casting them out just so they could bug other people: apparantly, there is a void where they are detained for a bit, but
they are in chains of darkness until the appointed time of judgement. They cannot be judged as in comdemned sooner, but they can be judged as in rebuked now until the appointed time for them to be cast into the lake of fire when they will never bug anyone again.

***Believers should note the promise of greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world, unless you suffer a thief to break through by opening yourself up to receiving another spirit, including any one that has been misled into thinking they need to receive the Holy Spirit again, thus suffering a thief to break through.

Wayward believers need to narrow the way back to the straight gate by returning to their first love, Jesus Christ, in holding unto the love of the truth that we have received the sanctification of the Spirit upon salvation, and cannot be received again lest they bear false testimony as if the Father gave them a stone instead of bread or a serpent instead of a fish. No one should be asking for the Holy Spirit again once they had received Him.

How does one receive Him? By trusting Jesus Christ as the Saviour:

Ephesians 1:11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the promise at salvation by which Jesus Christ is glorified by for being Our Saviour. This baptism cannot happen at any other time lest it takes away the glory of Jesus Christ at salvation.***



You may have to clarify that statement. Reads as if you are saying the spirits were haunting the man because he was insane???
The guy was mentally ill. He was sitting aside the road naked, wasn't he? So who said he had evil spirits? The insane guy or the people who thought he was insane?

If the guy (who was mentally ill) believed he was being controlled by evil spirits and Jesus used that to heal him... does that mean the evil spirits actually exist??

Quote:
Since the devil seeks whom he may devour, and as sin is self destructive, we can see just how much faster the devil can make any living thing go.
Okay so the devil caused the pigs to die? That part of the story just doesn't make sense... Why would the evil spirits (a legion of them) be cast into pigs and then the pigs all die but the evil spirits go bug others?

A legion was (according to Easton bible dictionary) 4000-6000. So this guy had 4000-6000 evil spirits in him... that legion was cast into 2000 pigs. Then the pigs rushed into the lake (insane pigs?) and drown.

You don't find anything suspect about that?

I do: Mark 5:15 They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the "legion"; and they became frightened.
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