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Old 07-14-2010, 05:36 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,002,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The guy was mentally ill. He was sitting aside the road naked, wasn't he? So who said he had evil spirits? The insane guy or the people who thought he was insane?

If the guy (who was mentally ill) believed he was being controlled by evil spirits and Jesus used that to heal him... does that mean the evil spirits actually exist??
Explain to the herdsman that fed those pigs.

Mark 5:14And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

Quote:
Okay so the devil caused the pigs to die? That part of the story just doesn't make sense... Why would the evil spirits (a legion of them) be cast into pigs and then the pigs all die but the evil spirits go bug others?
It is not to say that they immediately went out to bug others. There are bounds that these unclean spirits cannot cross. Sin or rudiments of occultism can allow them to cross. Not always, but it can serve as a door. I reckon it is whenever the devil has given the opportunity.

Quote:
A legion was (according to Easton bible dictionary) 4000-6000. So this guy had 4000-6000 evil spirits in him... that legion was cast into 2000 pigs. Then the pigs rushed into the lake (insane pigs?) and drown.

You don't find anything suspect about that?
Being how there were many in one man, I reckon there can be many in one pig to be divided among Legion among the herd.

[/quote]I do: Mark 5:15 They came to Jesus and observed the man who had been demon-possessed sitting down, clothed and in his right mind, the very man who had had the "legion"; and they became frightened.[/quote]

And that man wanted to go with Him, but Jesus said to remain and be a witness of what the Lord has done for him after the Lord was being told by those citizens to leave.

Mark 5: 16And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine. 17And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts. 18And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him. 19Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee. 20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

Makes me wonder if that meant there are writings of this account in Decapolis? I wonder if any of these secular reports have survived?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:06 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 1,491,610 times
Reputation: 1898
I don't "think I know" but I do know who and what satan is, and that demons are much more common than any of my own, pentecostal family have a clue. They can inhabit us without "possessing" us/our souls. Just like a little gremlin within, demons are very busy. No wonder so many think that reincarnation has been proven.

It has not. The past-life regressions that are so often pointed at as supposed proof that reincarnation is reality is simply the demons inside folks that have reincarnated to yet another life by inhabiting yet another person. THEY have the memories inside the person.

I was once, like Paul? chief among sinners back in the seventies and I actually understand a ton about our adversary.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:12 AM
 
Location: RI
19,392 posts, read 9,518,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Yeah , but don't do what I did. I punched my old nature thinking I could keep it in line. Man, that smarted.
Been there and done that, I was the most miserable Christian sinner you could have ever met at that time, then I saw the truth of this

That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:19 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Jasher 1:9

"And the serpent, which God had created with them in the earth, came to them to incite them to transgress the command of God which he had commanded them."

We know the serpent is a reference to the Devil or Satan as other verses point out.

But well do you think you know who Satan is or what Satan is?

Consider the first mention of this figure in Genesis:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Why would the serpent being compared to those things that are made and is spoken of as "he".

Right here is should be noted that Satan here is speaking to Eve but what you may not notice is that Adam is with her:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So we have the Serpent talking to Eve and we later see that Adam is actually with her. But we don't ever see where Adam is debating with Eve concering the fact the fruit she offers him is forbidden.

Now what is the first thing Adam does when they get question by God concerning this matter? Why didn't Adam immediately blame Satan since Adam was with Even when the Serpent was speaking with Eve? Note Adam's response:

Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Adam here is accusing Eve! Why? - consider this:

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

So Eve was made by God for Adam.

My belief here is that Adam was the one speaking to Eve and enticing her as a way to get approval from God since Eve was given to Adam. The Serpent is just a reference to that Spirit of Disobedience that Adam was exhibiting.

Now notice the last part of the condemnation for Eve:

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

My belief is that when Eve provided the direction for eating of the forbidden fruit and gave to Adam that she would have been usurping Adam (had there been a subjection established at that time). So now with Eve being subject to Adam, it would be Eve to remain upon Adam for the decision and not vice-versa.
trettep good to meet you...
I reply: Consider this!!!
Keep this in mind.."He who keeps God' COMMANDS loves God"!

Go back to Genesis 2:17.. Here God gives Adam the COMMAND not to eat>>IMPORTANT Note: Eve was not with Adam, when God commanded Adam not to eat!

Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Look...this comes AFTER verse #17
Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

trettep NOW.. Go to Eve and the Snake..
Genesis 3:3
but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Look back to Genesis 2:17... God did not >NOT< Say "Do not touch!"

Adam relayed the COMMAND to Eve.. Eve was NOT around when God gave Adam the command.. It was Adam that said.. "Do not touch it"!
I think of it this way... Adam told Eve, he commanded her.. saying; "God does not want us to eat of the tree"! So don't eat, DON'T even touch it!

Proving "Eve did not LOVE Adam!!"
If she loved Adam, Eve would have obeyed her husband!
When this story was told to the early Jews sitting around their camp fire, all would instantly understand; "Eve was not a good wife!" Back then, the woman was to be submissive to her husband!

trettep You bring up a good point: Adam was with Eve! All the early Jews hearing this story, would instantly know; Adam did not love Eve.. It is always the Mans job to protect the family!
All men would fed off danger from even family and children that were not even theirs
IT is ALWAYS the work of men, to defend the family, the children and the weak!

All men know; Snakes are "Bad News", all know would instantly, as the story is told, snakes are very dangerous! All would instantly understand; Adam did not care for Eve because he did not defend her! PROOF...?

Genesis 3:12
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

trettep God can put them together but even God can't make them love!
Think: If God gave them a pill to make them love each other, then their love would NOT be true love!
TRUE LOVE IS: "GIVING of self, from the heart!"

True Love is GIVEN FREELY as Husband and Wife give of themselves freely!!

The Prostitute gives herself, but not out of love! True love comes from the willingness to let go of yourself, for another.. AS..
As Jesus did on the cross!

trettep Adam and Eve were removed because they did not love!
Adam did not love God, he did not keep God's commands!
Eve did not love Adam.. She did not keep Adam' commands!
Adam did not love Eve, he did not defend her from danger!

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Do you see it? "To Love God is to be obedient to God' commands!"

Adam did not love! So he was removed!

trettep Jesus is a second Adam... Jesus obeys God, Jesus LOVES his bride he died for his bride!
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

All who LOVE enter heaven>> God IS LOVE!
Only Love saves!
All will enter through the door; Jesus is the Door of LOVE!
man was saved by "Love ALONE!"

Dogknox
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,274 posts, read 1,665,157 times
Reputation: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Like kat and Paul . . . I know exactly who Satan and the Serpent are . . . but I despair of ever breaking through the superstitious magical nonsense that seems to dominate religious beliefs about God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Finn_Jarber,
There is no need to be sorry. It's the same crowd doing the same thing.....

I don't know why people keep lumping all universalist together as though we all believe the same thing, it just ain't so.

Mystic I know in this area you believe that I am still under the superstitious magical nonsense that seems to dominate religious beliefs about God. However it is not superstition or nonsense to believe in a spirit being call Satan and the devil.

I do not care what man can write or how well they can write it and tell me there is no such thing as spirit being named Satan. When one has actually come into contact with this being, seen him and heard him speak no words can then per sway to the contrary.

It is like the belief in Jesus Christ, until He is manifested to one, one cannot believe in Him. Tis the same with Satan, those who have not seen a manifestation of him simply cannot believe in him. So they try to explain him away as something else.

It has been said that sin is of the devil and the lusts of the flesh are those sin, thus equating our flesh with the devil.

Yet we are told our fight is not with FLESH and BLOOD, (the life of the flesh is in the blood) but with principality and powers in heavenly places.

Now as enos rightly pointed out Satan entered into Judas. So if our flesh is Satan or our mind is Satan how can it be said Satan entered into anyone? As We have flesh and mind from our birth.

Also Satan is referred to a spirit which negates it being our flesh or our mind as neither of those are referred to a spirit.

Also of note is that if Satan is our flesh or mind Jesus Christ was also possessed of Satan. For He did indeed come in the flesh and had a mind of His own.


One of the great errors that has entered into the gospel message is the belief that Satan does not really exist, that he is just our flesh or our minds. And the reason this is so great an error is because in order to do battle with ones opponent one must KNOW who their opponent is in order to defeat his wily darts.

If man keeps battling his FLESH and BLOOD (the life of the flesh is in the blood) man will never over come, for he is using all his energy to battle the wrong enemy.

Just ask yourself this question: how many of you have overcome by battling the life of the flesh?

Guys we are in a SPIRITUAL battle NOT a battle with FLESH and BLOOD or the LIFE of the FLESH.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:00 PM
 
467 posts, read 179,131 times
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pneuma I hope all is well..
I add: Jesus drove out "Demons" and in James 2, we are told "Demons" also have "Faith"!
Some people say there is NO Satan; So what?.. But there are Demons!

Demons or Satan.. It does not matter, both are evil, both hate men!

To deny Satan' existence these people must ask: "What did Jesus drive out of people"!?
Mark 5:9
Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Dogknox
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:09 AM
 
7,584 posts, read 2,744,079 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I don't know why people keep lumping all universalist together as though we all believe the same thing, it just ain't so.

Mystic I know in this area you believe that I am still under the superstitious magical nonsense that seems to dominate religious beliefs about God. However it is not superstition or nonsense to believe in a spirit being call Satan and the devil.

I do not care what man can write or how well they can write it and tell me there is no such thing as spirit being named Satan. When one has actually come into contact with this being, seen him and heard him speak no words can then per sway to the contrary.

It is like the belief in Jesus Christ, until He is manifested to one, one cannot believe in Him. Tis the same with Satan, those who have not seen a manifestation of him simply cannot believe in him. So they try to explain him away as something else.

It has been said that sin is of the devil and the lusts of the flesh are those sin, thus equating our flesh with the devil.

Yet we are told our fight is not with FLESH and BLOOD, (the life of the flesh is in the blood) but with principality and powers in heavenly places.

Now as enos rightly pointed out Satan entered into Judas. So if our flesh is Satan or our mind is Satan how can it be said Satan entered into anyone? As We have flesh and mind from our birth.

Also Satan is referred to a spirit which negates it being our flesh or our mind as neither of those are referred to a spirit.

Also of note is that if Satan is our flesh or mind Jesus Christ was also possessed of Satan. For He did indeed come in the flesh and had a mind of His own.


One of the great errors that has entered into the gospel message is the belief that Satan does not really exist, that he is just our flesh or our minds. And the reason this is so great an error is because in order to do battle with ones opponent one must KNOW who their opponent is in order to defeat his wily darts.

If man keeps battling his FLESH and BLOOD (the life of the flesh is in the blood) man will never over come, for he is using all his energy to battle the wrong enemy.

Just ask yourself this question: how many of you have overcome by battling the life of the flesh?

Guys we are in a SPIRITUAL battle NOT a battle with FLESH and BLOOD or the LIFE of the FLESH.
In other words, you are saying that man is only that of flesh and blood?

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

"The act of persuading does not require physical entry or a loaded gun."


Last edited by Jerwade; 04-04-2012 at 12:36 AM..
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:46 AM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 8 days ago)
 
5,946 posts, read 2,965,150 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I don't know why people keep lumping all universalist together as though we all believe the same thing, it just ain't so.

Mystic I know in this area you believe that I am still under the superstitious magical nonsense that seems to dominate religious beliefs about God. However it is not superstition or nonsense to believe in a spirit being call Satan and the devil.

I do not care what man can write or how well they can write it and tell me there is no such thing as spirit being named Satan. When one has actually come into contact with this being, seen him and heard him speak no words can then per sway to the contrary.

It is like the belief in Jesus Christ, until He is manifested to one, one cannot believe in Him. Tis the same with Satan, those who have not seen a manifestation of him simply cannot believe in him. So they try to explain him away as something else.

It has been said that sin is of the devil and the lusts of the flesh are those sin, thus equating our flesh with the devil.

Yet we are told our fight is not with FLESH and BLOOD, (the life of the flesh is in the blood) but with principality and powers in heavenly places.

Now as enos rightly pointed out Satan entered into Judas. So if our flesh is Satan or our mind is Satan how can it be said Satan entered into anyone? As We have flesh and mind from our birth.

Also Satan is referred to a spirit which negates it being our flesh or our mind as neither of those are referred to a spirit.

Also of note is that if Satan is our flesh or mind Jesus Christ was also possessed of Satan. For He did indeed come in the flesh and had a mind of His own.


One of the great errors that has entered into the gospel message is the belief that Satan does not really exist, that he is just our flesh or our minds. And the reason this is so great an error is because in order to do battle with ones opponent one must KNOW who their opponent is in order to defeat his wily darts.

If man keeps battling his FLESH and BLOOD (the life of the flesh is in the blood) man will never over come, for he is using all his energy to battle the wrong enemy.

Just ask yourself this question: how many of you have overcome by battling the life of the flesh?

Guys we are in a SPIRITUAL battle NOT a battle with FLESH and BLOOD or the LIFE of the FLESH.
On the contrary Pneuma, it is a good thing if we recognize that WE are Satan. Satan is indeed a reference to spirit. It is specifically a reference to the disobedient nature of man. It is a nature that caters to the SELF to give the flesh its pleasure and desire. So when we read that Jesus was sent to destroy the works of the Devil - those are OUR Works that Jesus came to destroy.

If there is NO MAN, there is NO SATAN. SATAN does not exist apart from man. For it takes the disobedient nature of man for SATAN to exist since that is what Satan is.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Lubbock, Tx
5,172 posts, read 2,037,992 times
Reputation: 6568
The OP doesn't get it. Just read the text without putting your "spin" on it. Even in perfection, Eve us subject to Adam. Note who names Eve. Not God, but Adam, who also named all the animals. She is a "helper" suitable to him. All this shows us that Eve was under Adam. So when Eve rebelled against God, because she listened to Satan instead of God, she sinned. Adam sinned because he listened to his wife and not God. But Satan is the source of the temptation, so he is cursed also. Adam complains to God about Eve because he is doing what so many do, try to shift the blame on to someone else,(typical of sinful people, The Devil made me do it.) and in this case he is trying to blame God or Eve.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:49 AM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 8 days ago)
 
5,946 posts, read 2,965,150 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogknox View Post
pneuma I hope all is well..
I add: Jesus drove out "Demons" and in James 2, we are told "Demons" also have "Faith"!
Some people say there is NO Satan; So what?.. But there are Demons!

Demons or Satan.. It does not matter, both are evil, both hate men!

To deny Satan' existence these people must ask: "What did Jesus drive out of people"!?
Mark 5:9
Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Dogknox
Hi Dogknox - Satan is a term that is a reference to the overall disobedient nature of man. The term "demons" often denote evil parts of that disobdient nature. For example, if someone bears false witness we could therefore say that person has the demon that causes them to bear false witness. So many of us have many demons that need exercised - REMOVED from us. To remove them requires that we IDENTIFY that we have these problems to begin with and recognize the damage they cause us in the realm of universal love.

Last edited by trettep; 04-04-2012 at 06:58 AM..
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