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Old 07-10-2010, 07:18 PM
 
22,017 posts, read 16,770,811 times
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If you want to learn about doctrines such as justification, positional versus experiential sanctification, reconciliation, original sin, the barrier between man and God, the angelic conflict, spiritual death, spirituality versus carnality, grace versus legalism, eternal security, and many other doctrines, then you will learn about them here. I hope that someone will find them useful.

Fundamentals : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX

Last edited by june 7th; 07-11-2010 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:04 PM
 
40,235 posts, read 26,840,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned

If you want to learn about doctrines such as justification, positional versus experiential sanctification, reconciliation, original sin, the barrier between man and God, the angelic conflict, spiritual death, spirituality versus carnality, grace versus legalism, eternal security, and many other doctrines, then you will learn about them here. I hope that someone will find them useful.

Fundamentals : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX
OR . . . you could just skip all the complicated "precepts and doctrines of men" and just "love God and each other" . . . as those lovely folks have done for Miss Blue and her family. Just saying.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-11-2010 at 07:46 AM..
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,191,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned

If you want to learn about doctrines such as justification, positional versus experiential sanctification, reconciliation, original sin, the barrier between man and God, the angelic conflict, spiritual death, spirituality versus carnality, grace versus legalism, eternal security, and many other doctrines, then you will learn about them here. I hope that someone will find them useful.

Fundamentals : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
OR . . . you could just skip all the complicated "precepts and doctrines of men" and just "love God and each other" . . . as those lovely folks have done for Miss Blue and her family. Just saying.
OR Moderator cut: deleted learn about doctrines such as objective \ subjective justification, accountability for unbelief, salvation by faith not by works . . . doctrines found in the Bible that has freed many from the slavery of works and sin.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-11-2010 at 07:47 AM..
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:18 PM
 
22,017 posts, read 16,770,811 times
Reputation: 8786
The majority of believers will never advance to spiritual maturity because they will not make the effort, indeed, they do not have the desire to study and learn the doctrines of the word of God. It is written, 'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.' 2 Timothy 2:15

The doctrines given to the church in the epistles of the New Testament are meant to be learned and understood by the believer. The Christian cannot advance in his spiritual life, and cannot have love for God apart from knowing God. One cannot know God apart from learning what He has revealed about Himself in His written word. Love for God is not some sappy emotional feeling. It is first of all a mental attitude which is based on knowledge of God.

Nor is knowledge of the doctrines of the word of God to be equated with Phariseeism as some are wont to do. The doctrines of the New Testament epistles are about Jesus Christ. The believer is warned and commanded in 2 Peter 3:14 'Therefore beloved, since you look for these things (previously mentioned), be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, [15] and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, [16] as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. [17] You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, [18] But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

It is through attaining knowledge of Bible doctrine that the believer is able to go on the offensive in the spiritual life by applying that doctrine to the circumstances of his life. It is also the means by which the believer may stay on the defensive against Satan.

God leaves the believer on this earth after salvation so that he can grow up spiritually. This is done by making many decisions over time, to expose himself to the teaching of the word of God. Most believers will fail to do this.

The basic doctrines provided at the resource in the original post are a good start to the attainment of spiritual maturity.

Last edited by Mike555; 07-10-2010 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,299,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

The doctrines given to the church in the epistles of the New Testament are meant to be learned and understood by the believer. The Christian cannot advance in his spiritual life, and cannot have love for God apart from knowing God. One cannot know God apart from learning what He has revealed about Himself in His written word. Love for God is not some sappy emotional feeling. It is first of all a mental attitude which is based on knowledge of God.
If you haven't got the Holy Ghost you cannot understand scriptures, no matter how long you study them. Are you following Jesus or preacher Joe? Are you following the Spirit of Christ in you, or the devil in you? Your works will testify to you if you are walking in the Spirit or in flesh and condemnation. Doctrine doesn't save, Jesus Christ in you saves.

The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. We need to hear the voice of God IN US, not some preacher telling us what to think. We need direct revelation from God, and if He doesn't give it to us, then we must wait patiently. The sheep won't listen to the voice of a hireling; they know their Shepherd and will follow HIM when He calls.

Man is not a robot. He's not taught spiritual things by attending seminaries and making graphs and charts.
He has to be set free from the devil, which is his flesh. Only Christ IN YOU can break the yoke of bondage.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
478 posts, read 655,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The majority of believers will never advance to spiritual maturity because they will not make the effort, indeed, they do not have the desire to study and learn the doctrines of the word of God. It is written, 'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.' 2 Timothy 2:15
That the "spiritual maturity" you speak of cannot be attained without the word of god (the bible); that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. And I don't mean to be rude or to disrespect your belief, but the idea that the christian bible is the one and only reference and life-guide to reach "spiritual maturity" sure seems pretty short sighted. It is illogical, even within the scope of a narrow vision such as fundamentalism, to think that there is a sole, particular book- a physical object- that one needs to obey and follow as literally as possible in order to be "spiritually mature". How can one possibly grow spiritually if he remains glued to one specific set of beliefs, and has no interest in investigating as many paths and possibilities towards enlightenment, and thus neither delves nor deviates from his own limited scope thereof? When we stop learning, we stop growing. Intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is through attaining knowledge of Bible doctrine that the believer is able to go on the offensive in the spiritual life by applying that doctrine to the circumstances of his life. It is also the means by which the believer may stay on the defensive against Satan.

God leaves the believer on this earth after salvation so that he can grow up spiritually. This is done by making many decisions over time, to expose himself to the teaching of the word of God. Most believers will fail to do this.

The basic doctrines provided at the resource in the original post are a good start to the attainment of spiritual maturity.
But what you are suggesting people do is to follow and live by the bible literally and specifically, and to do so means not applying said doctrine to the circumstances in his life, as you say. Perhaps you believe that you are interpreting and applying the knowledge you have gained from the bible in a creative and individualized way, but I don't see that. What I see is a consistent pasting of exact quotes that you use to explain and/or back up your beliefs in favor of using your own words and thoughts to stand on their own as a means to perpetuate, share and explain your beliefs. It's as if the bible is your crutch rather than your tool.


I can understand that some people, you included, believe very strongly in the bible, and like to live by its words. There is a lot of wisdom and knowledge to be gained from the bible if one is to understand that it is a collection of anecdotes, analogies and parables- all written within the context of the time in which it illustrates and reflects, which was over 2000 years ago. So it should go without saying that a good deal of the cultural and societal references should be taken with a grain of salt (to say the least!), and that if one wants to benefit from the bible, it's important to take the time and effort to read the words with the thought and interest, and apply these lessons and stories to themselves within the scope of their own lives, and the world around them as per their own experiences and feelings. Which you did mention, Mike555. But without openness and interest in the world around you, and the willingness to absorb as much information the world and everyone in it has to offer you, how can you honestly say that you are on the path to "spiritual maturity"? You say this: God leaves the believer on this earth after salvation so that he can grow up spiritually. This is done by making many decisions over time, to expose himself to the teaching of the word of God.
The "word of god" can be found in many places, Mike, not just in the christian bible. God is everywhere, and within everything, and to grow and evolve as humans- both individually and as a society- we must, MUST be as open and accepting as possible to learning as much as we can. Living blindly by any doctrine or particular belief, and refusing to accept and learn from other sources- as many sources within our reach- is nothing less than spiritually stagnating.


In closing, I do want to say that I respect you took the time to find a link and post it in an effort to share something that you believe will help people. It's just that I happen to see the material you provided as more harmful than helpful. That's just my personal opinion.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:02 AM
 
22,017 posts, read 16,770,811 times
Reputation: 8786
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
If you haven't got the Holy Ghost you cannot understand scriptures, no matter how long you study them. Are you following Jesus or preacher Joe? Are you following the Spirit of Christ in you, or the devil in you? Your works will testify to you if you are walking in the Spirit or in flesh and condemnation. Doctrine doesn't save, Jesus Christ in you saves.

The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. We need to hear the voice of God IN US, not some preacher telling us what to think. We need direct revelation from God, and if He doesn't give it to us, then we must wait patiently. The sheep won't listen to the voice of a hireling; they know their Shepherd and will follow HIM when He calls.

Man is not a robot. He's not taught spiritual things by attending seminaries and making graphs and charts.
He has to be set free from the devil, which is his flesh. Only Christ IN YOU can break the yoke of bondage.

Blessings,
brian
Bible doctrine is for believers. All church-age believers have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. That is one of the things that is learned in a study of basic Bible doctrine. The filling of the Spirit is a different ministry than the indwelling of the Spirit and that too is basic doctrine which must be understood.

The word of God is not dead letters in a book. And God's system is for the believer to put himself under the teaching ministry of a pastor/teacher so that he can learn the doctrines of the word of God and advance to spiritual maturity. Ephesians 4:11 'And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers. [12] for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; [13] until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of Christ, [14] As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every word of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; [15] but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, [16] from whom the whole body, which every joint supplies, accordig to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the buliding up of itself in love.

On the authority of the word of God, the believer is to learn the doctrines that belong to the Churh-age so that he may grow up spiritually.

This thread is for the purpose of supplying a source of doctrinal teaching for those who want it. For those of you who are opposed to knowledge, simply go elsewhere and leave this thread in peace.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:31 AM
 
22,017 posts, read 16,770,811 times
Reputation: 8786
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666 View Post
That the "spiritual maturity" you speak of cannot be attained without the word of god (the bible); that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. And I don't mean to be rude or to disrespect your belief, but the idea that the christian bible is the one and only reference and life-guide to reach "spiritual maturity" sure seems pretty short sighted. It is illogical, even within the scope of a narrow vision such as fundamentalism, to think that there is a sole, particular book- a physical object- that one needs to obey and follow as literally as possible in order to be "spiritually mature". How can one possibly grow spiritually if he remains glued to one specific set of beliefs, and has no interest in investigating as many paths and possibilities towards enlightenment, and thus neither delves nor deviates from his own limited scope thereof? When we stop learning, we stop growing. Intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually.




But what you are suggesting people do is to follow and live by the bible literally and specifically, and to do so means not applying said doctrine to the circumstances in his life, as you say. Perhaps you believe that you are interpreting and applying the knowledge you have gained from the bible in a creative and individualized way, but I don't see that. What I see is a consistent pasting of exact quotes that you use to explain and/or back up your beliefs in favor of using your own words and thoughts to stand on their own as a means to perpetuate, share and explain your beliefs. It's as if the bible is your crutch rather than your tool.


I can understand that some people, you included, believe very strongly in the bible, and like to live by its words. There is a lot of wisdom and knowledge to be gained from the bible if one is to understand that it is a collection of anecdotes, analogies and parables- all written within the context of the time in which it illustrates and reflects, which was over 2000 years ago. So it should go without saying that a good deal of the cultural and societal references should be taken with a grain of salt (to say the least!), and that if one wants to benefit from the bible, it's important to take the time and effort to read the words with the thought and interest, and apply these lessons and stories to themselves within the scope of their own lives, and the world around them as per their own experiences and feelings. Which you did mention, Mike555. But without openness and interest in the world around you, and the willingness to absorb as much information the world and everyone in it has to offer you, how can you honestly say that you are on the path to "spiritual maturity"? You say this: God leaves the believer on this earth after salvation so that he can grow up spiritually. This is done by making many decisions over time, to expose himself to the teaching of the word of God.
The "word of god" can be found in many places, Mike, not just in the christian bible. God is everywhere, and within everything, and to grow and evolve as humans- both individually and as a society- we must, MUST be as open and accepting as possible to learning as much as we can. Living blindly by any doctrine or particular belief, and refusing to accept and learn from other sources- as many sources within our reach- is nothing less than spiritually stagnating.


In closing, I do want to say that I respect you took the time to find a link and post it in an effort to share something that you believe will help people. It's just that I happen to see the material you provided as more harmful than helpful. That's just my personal opinion.
To the contrary. Yours are the words of worldly men. If you are not a believer in Christ, then go your own way. The Bible is the written word of God, and is the only source of divine revelation in the church-age. God has communicated through His written word, His complete and connected message for man. All that God has chosen to reveal to man has been placed in writing. In heaven, the believer will learn so much more. But for the believers Christian walk on this earth, his source of spiritual nourishment is the Bible. One of the ministries of God the Holy Spirit is to enable the believer to assimulate the doctrines of the word of God into his soul so that he can apply those doctrines to his life and mature spiritually. The Bible is the absolute norm and standard by which the believer is to live his spiritual llife.

Again, this thread is for the purpose of supplying a source of doctrinal material for those who are interested. And that is its only purpose. It is not about debating the merits of doctrine.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:41 AM
 
7,816 posts, read 10,719,516 times
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At the very next rude or off topic post, this thread will be closed.

June means it, so let's all "be nice" and read the OP and post accordingly, okay?


Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:04 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,774,540 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666 View Post
That the "spiritual maturity" you speak of cannot be attained without the word of god (the bible); that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. And I don't mean to be rude or to disrespect your belief, but the idea that the christian bible is the one and only reference and life-guide to reach "spiritual maturity" sure seems pretty short sighted. It is illogical, even within the scope of a narrow vision such as fundamentalism, to think that there is a sole, particular book- a physical object- that one needs to obey and follow as literally as possible in order to be "spiritually mature". How can one possibly grow spiritually if he remains glued to one specific set of beliefs, and has no interest in investigating as many paths and possibilities towards enlightenment, and thus neither delves nor deviates from his own limited scope thereof? When we stop learning, we stop growing. Intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually.

But what you are suggesting people do is to follow and live by the bible literally and specifically, and to do so means not applying said doctrine to the circumstances in his life, as you say. Perhaps you believe that you are interpreting and applying the knowledge you have gained from the bible in a creative and individualized way, but I don't see that. What I see is a consistent pasting of exact quotes that you use to explain and/or back up your beliefs in favor of using your own words and thoughts to stand on their own as a means to perpetuate, share and explain your beliefs. It's as if the bible is your crutch rather than your tool.

I can understand that some people, you included, believe very strongly in the bible, and like to live by its words. There is a lot of wisdom and knowledge to be gained from the bible if one is to understand that it is a collection of anecdotes, analogies and parables- all written within the context of the time in which it illustrates and reflects, which was over 2000 years ago. So it should go without saying that a good deal of the cultural and societal references should be taken with a grain of salt (to say the least!), and that if one wants to benefit from the bible, it's important to take the time and effort to read the words with the thought and interest, and apply these lessons and stories to themselves within the scope of their own lives, and the world around them as per their own experiences and feelings. Which you did mention, Mike555. But without openness and interest in the world around you, and the willingness to absorb as much information the world and everyone in it has to offer you, how can you honestly say that you are on the path to "spiritual maturity"? You say this: God leaves the believer on this earth after salvation so that he can grow up spiritually. This is done by making many decisions over time, to expose himself to the teaching of the word of God.

The "word of god" can be found in many places, Mike, not just in the christian bible. God is everywhere, and within everything, and to grow and evolve as humans- both individually and as a society- we must, MUST be as open and accepting as possible to learning as much as we can. Living blindly by any doctrine or particular belief, and refusing to accept and learn from other sources- as many sources within our reach- is nothing less than spiritually stagnating.

In closing, I do want to say that I respect you took the time to find a link and post it in an effort to share something that you believe will help people. It's just that I happen to see the material you provided as more harmful than helpful. That's just my personal opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. Yours are the words of worldly men. If you are not a believer in Christ, then go your own way. The Bible is the written word of God, and is the only source of divine revelation in the church-age. God has communicated through His written word, His complete and connected message for man. All that God has chosen to reveal to man has been placed in writing. In heaven, the believer will learn so much more. But for the believers Christian walk on this earth, his source of spiritual nourishment is the Bible. One of the ministries of God the Holy Spirit is to enable the believer to assimulate the doctrines of the word of God into his soul so that he can apply those doctrines to his life and mature spiritually. The Bible is the absolute norm and standard by which the believer is to live his spiritual llife.

Again, this thread is for the purpose of supplying a source of doctrinal material for those who are interested. And that is its only purpose. It is not about debating the merits of doctrine.
Mike555, you said in other threads that everyone in every part of the entire world, past, present and future, will have the gospel message presented to them once they achieve "God consciousness," and have "positive volition." However, when you had the chance to share the gospel message with helios666, someone who has this God consciousness, yet believes there are many paths to God, someone who was kind and respectful to you, you instead tell them, "If you are not a believer in Christ, then go your own way." You then talked about the written word and doctrine rather than pointing them to the love of God and the fact that Jesus came to seek and to save the lost and to give us peace with God.

Mike, what if you were the person God was trying to send to reach the heart of the one who is seeking God but doesn't believe Jesus is the way? If you did this, how can you be so sure than whenever God sends someone to just the right person at just the right time when they have this positive volition thing going on, that the person God sent will even do His will? Also, I don't think God sees this one person with God consciousness in Nirobi or somewhere, goes to the trouble of sending a person all the way there (hoping they'll actually share the gospel and not tell them to go their own way), and then the free will of the person says they don't believe, so God says, "Oh well. Thanks for going. It was worth a shot."

It seems you believe God is helpless without the assistance of fallible human beings to save people, but at the same time you claim it's a complete work of God. You say God needs our help to get the message to people, but you tell a seeker to "go your own way." Do you really believe God can't do it without the help of feeble, weak, arrogant men that won't even do it right most of the time? God needs men to spread the good news that Jesus died for them to save from their sins and to give them life, but he doesn't need men to help save them. However, if you believe He does, why didn't you try harder with helios666?

But, He can do that all on His own. It's a complete work of God. It is finished. God forgave people because they didn't know what they were doing. Jesus is the Savior of the world. That's the good news.
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