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Old 07-12-2010, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Paul wasn't confused.

Jesus' one act of righteousness is a fact whether you believe it or not. It is the subjective justification that determines your eternity.

Subjective justification:
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:36
So Paul was in fact confused when he was so general with his use of "justification to life." He said all men. All men = Condemnation All men = Justification.

So you can be saved whether you believe it or not! The act is done... finished. Non-negotiable. Set in stone. Nailed to a cross...

Salvation has gone out to all men, whether they believe it or not.

IMHO of course.

 
Old 07-12-2010, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,717,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

Paul stated that none are without excuse.
Right - so all have excuses. Slow down on your aggressive crusade to stomp out the heretics young man - you are making mistakes.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,952 posts, read 34,295,019 times
Reputation: 10454
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
So anyone who is not privy to ever having the opportunity to 'hear the gospel' and somehow come to believe in it are stuck? How does that bespeak a "Savior?" It doesn't. That's the difficulty June is having here.
He is "the Saviour of all mankind" and there are no other Saviours. A lifeguard is still the lifeguard of the pool, even if someone drowns. The presence of the lifeguard does not guarantee that no one will ever drown. The Bible does not say Christ will save all mankind, but those who believe, and that is repeated to no end in the Bible.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,952 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Gospel is as old as the fall of man in the garden. As I already said earlier, the Gospel began to spread after the flood. All of Noahs sons were believers in the coming Messiah. Salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah. We know the Messiah as Jesus Christ. Before His incarnation, by whatever name He was known, He was the Messiah who was to come and bear the sins of the world. By placing their faith in Him, they were saved. The people who came over from the old world and became known as native Americians, or Indians, had ancestors who at some point in the past been exposed to the Gospel. As time went on, whatever knowledge that these people had of God became corrupted through idol or demon worship. It is not that they never heard, it is that they turned away from God and became involved in pagan beliefs and forgot about the true God.
Yes, this in an important point. Moses and Abraham did not know Christ, yet they believed. They believed in what God had revealed to them, which may not have been much. However little it was, it is enogh for God, because he knows Abraham could only know more than what had been reveled to him.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,952 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
It amazes me what lengths of invention people will go to to try and condemn innocent peoples.
And what might your version be?
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:10 AM
 
40,037 posts, read 26,715,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And why do you feel compelled to judge Christians like this? Does it make you deel special?
No it is to point out the error of your judgment . . . just noting the truth . . . because it corrupts the "love of God and each other" for YOU to divide God's children into favored and unfavored. Any such division is for God and deciding what the division entails is for God too . . . NEVER for us pitiable and flawed humans to do. We are to love all our brothers and sisters without distinction for THAT is the way we will be known as Christ's.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:12 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
By Hank Hannegraaf - The Bible Answer Man

Men and women are not sentenced to hell based upon whether or not they have heard of Jesus Christ. Rather, they are justly and fittingly condemned based upon the fact that they are sinners. Indeed, they are sinners who have failed to act responsibly on what God has already revealed to them -- whether through the light of creation (Rom. 1), through the light of conscience (Rom. 2), or through the light of Christ (Rom. 3). If people respond to whatever light they do have, then God will send them the light of the gospel. Because no one has been kept in the dark about God's existence, we're all accountable directly to Him (Luke 12:47-48).

Continued at Link. What Happens to Those Who Have Never Heard ofJesus Christ? - Christian foundations - Christianity.com

Original Material below

Paul stated that none are without excuse. The Psalms state that throughout all of creation, God is evident everywhere. The purpose of the Gospel is to not only spread the news about their salvation, but to remedy the nature that we inhertied from Adam, that we can obtain that salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Based on the articles premise, it supports many religious beliefs and even non religious ideas being a pathway to God. Since the vast majority of humans acknowledge what has been given to them by the Creator.

To deny this will only show that you believe the whole world must adhere to your theological view point or be damned to hell.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:22 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,556,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
And what might your version be?

My version would be

1Ti 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who IS the Savior of ALL MEN, and especially of those who believe.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,952 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
My version would be

1Ti 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
OK. Based on your earlier comments I thought you were an atheist .
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:39 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,556,771 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
OK. Based on your earlier comments I thought you were an atheist .
I have made it very clear in numerous threads that I am a Christian.It is just that evangelical Christians seem to automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with them and doesn't believe in ET is therefore an atheist.
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