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Old 07-11-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,490,322 times
Reputation: 438

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Fellow brothers and sisters,

I urge all those considering the extra Biblical view of Universalism, to read this statement by a former Universalist, who could not get around the obviousness of the scriptures and what message is being presented by our Lord Jesus Christ. In doing so, one must question a view that had been deemed heretical by the church, an will continue to do so, unless it conforms to the structure and doctrines that the scriptures itself teaches.

Believe in Christ, in this life, and you are eternally with God.
The message is clear, and the holy Spirit has prevailed on this subject, and will conitune to do so, until a world without end.

"Yes, God is LOVE in the purest most complete form that exists! He is the one who showed us what love is. He has even showed us that love is not without limits. We say, God can do everything,but no, such a statement isn't entirely true. He can only do all his holy will; he cannot do evil! In the same way, His love is specifically toward a world that sits in condemnation; he has paid the price to remove that condemnation, but not all people accept His love and gift of eternal life."

More at link below.

http://tear.sinfree.net/Universalism/FormerUnie.html

The owner of the website's examination of Universalism below

Universalism
Sciotamicks, from what I can tell most websites that I come across where somebody is claiming to be a former Universalist, or even just ranting against Universalism, have NOT actually done any in-depth study of UR. They were either interested in tearing Universalism apart so they never got it in the first place, or they were afraid and backed off from their studies after a very short time.

None of the arguments that I have read have been well thought out. It's always the same old stuff. I keep track. I have not yet read a compelling argument against UR to this day. In fact, the more I read, the more I realized that those who shout against it do not know what they are talking about. They have NOT studied for years on end. They do not WANT to understand.

I believe the guy over at Tentmaker actually came out of Seminary with a lot of questions, which is how he came to realize that there is a lot more going on in the Bible than the system lets on. He seems to be one of the few guys our there who QUESTIONED and studied without feeling overpowered by his superiors and a 2000-year-old system. That takes a lot of guts and PASSION for the truth. It is not an easy task, especially when you are left out in the cold by people you thought cared about you.

 
Old 07-12-2010, 12:08 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,167,278 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Why will God demand this of 90% of human life? Can an ET'er answer me that?
Because:
  1. the whole world is being held accountable to God. Romans 3:19
  2. for all have sinned Romans 3:23
  3. and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23
  4. Since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities: Romans 1:20
    • his eternal power
    • divine nature
      • have been clearly seen,
      • being understood
    • so that men are without excuse.
  5. So that every mouth may be silenced Romans 3:19
It maybe best to remember who is who....Isaiah 45:9
"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd (broken pottery) among the potsherds on the ground."

Revelation 2:27
'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery'

He who has an ear, let him hear Revelation 2:29

...... are you listening?
 
Old 07-12-2010, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Because:
  1. the whole world is being held accountable to God. Romans 3:19
  2. for all have sinned Romans 3:23
  3. and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3:23
  4. Since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities: Romans 1:20
    • his eternal power
    • divine nature
      • have been clearly seen,
      • being understood
    • so that men are without excuse.
  5. So that every mouth may be silenced Romans 3:19
It maybe best to remember who is who....Isaiah 45:9
"Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd (broken pottery) among the potsherds on the ground."

Revelation 2:27
'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery'

He who has an ear, let him hear Revelation 2:29

...... are you listening?
If he is the potter then why would the clay need to go to a fiery hell? Couldn't God mold them into what he wanted? What he willed?
 
Old 07-12-2010, 01:01 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,369,517 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
If he is the potter then why would the clay need to go to a fiery hell? Couldn't God mold them into what he wanted? What he willed?
I guess God loves us as much as a few old pieces of clay .

But seriously, it does make it sound like we're just God's playthings.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,815,580 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
What's the big deal about a former universalist , there are plenty of former ET'ers on here . So Sciota your point is ?
I think most of us universalist are former ETers or Annihilationists. Besides, I don't believe there is such thing as a former universalist. If anything it is either a lie or someone that never completely understood universal salvation.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,023 posts, read 34,320,621 times
Reputation: 10461
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I think most of us universalist are former ETers or Annihilationists. Besides, I don't believe there is such thing as a former universalist. If anything it is either a lie or someone that never completely understood universal salvation.
One might say there isn't a former born again believer either, only those who were never saved in the first place. Someone mentioned that when he was a believer he hated people who did not believe. That sounds like he never really knew God in the first place.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,853 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
One might say there isn't a former born again believer either, only those who were never saved in the first place. Someone mentioned that when he was a believer he hated people who did not believe. That sounds like he never really knew God in the first place.
Amen.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 07:03 AM
 
40,048 posts, read 26,730,521 times
Reputation: 6049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
One might say there isn't a former born again believer either, only those who were never saved in the first place. Someone mentioned that when he was a believer he hated people who did not believe. That sounds like he never really knew God in the first place.
I don't think it was a problem of NOT knowing God . . . it is a problem of KNOWING God and rejecting YOUR sadistic, vengeful, egotistical, and all-too-human and weak beliefs about Him.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,023 posts, read 34,320,621 times
Reputation: 10461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
. . . it is a problem of KNOWING God and rejecting YOUR sadistic, vengeful, egotistical, and all-too-human and weak beliefs about Him.
Moderator cut: deleted

No, your 'argument' was not very persuasive at all, so I will stick to what I said earlier.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-12-2010 at 08:00 AM..
 
Old 07-12-2010, 07:44 AM
 
Location: New England
32,223 posts, read 21,101,518 times
Reputation: 2274
It appears to me that the god of fundamental christianity is far more vengeful and much more angry than any of the false gods of the world.

I actually think it stems from misunderstanding how God is depicted in the Old Covenant scriptures , which is God going around destroying people and nations . I am coming to realize that God has set up a principle that never fails and that is "reaping what we sow', so if you read the Old Covenant scriptures in that light you will not see it has God doing it , but the principle of reaping what you sow being fullfilled . The antidote for reaping what we sow is repentance, asking for forgiveness and asking God to be merciful to us.
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