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Old 07-15-2010, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,188 posts, read 21,052,082 times
Reputation: 22134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Someone here told you that you are wicked? Can you quote that post?
Why?

 
Old 07-15-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,247 posts, read 34,458,236 times
Reputation: 10543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Why?
So we can see what the poster meant. Were you called wicked directly or indirectly?
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,298,212 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Didn't you once say you were a born again Christian before you became a UR? How did you manage to misunderstand the meaning of salvation and being a Christian so throughly? And your use of words such as "it appears", and "it seems" proves that you never had any understanding of it. As a born again believer you should know better.
Hi Finn,

Born again, yes. Of no particular sect, just a person who has been shown something of the mercies and love of the One who created me!
Later, as the groups that I attended were ET groups (I've never found a UR group), I began to see myself become polluted in my heart towards others. I was starting to judge people, when I myself was just as guilty!
Today, I feel the Lord setting me completely free from judging others, and there is great peace in that. Does that mean that I don't tell others of God's immense love for all His creatures? On the contrary! It makes me want to get the message out even more!!

Many blessings to you,
brian
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,243,915 times
Reputation: 402
Why preach the gospel at all?

Without a doubt this is one of the most asked questions of Universalist, everywhere we post we come across this question.

Here is my answer to this question

For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.

Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.
His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.


Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed[/color] , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after[/color] people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.

[font=Calibri]So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE[/color], [color=darkgreen]so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE./FONT]

If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?

God bless

Last edited by june 7th; 07-15-2010 at 10:08 AM..
 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:07 AM
 
38 posts, read 42,866 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Then why do you keep spreading the first lie you said that "UR thinks people are forced to believe after they die"?!?!?!

But in any case, to answer your question: why do you think after death anyone would choose not to accept Christ? When confronted with God's presence, every heart will melt. Scripture says they all will come to Him:

Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus is their Lord and Savior, this will all happen to the glory of God. All will worship and praise God and glorify Him!

You just don't believe someone is accepting Christ even though scripture is clear that all will bow and confess His name willingly, and this is done to the glory of God. What's the problem?
The redemptive plan of God has always been that believers are saved because they confess Jesus Christ is Lord, the Son of God and Messiah WITHOUT seeing Him in His glorified state.

According to Ephesians 2:8 - By grace are ye save through faith. There are 2 important requirements for a believer to be saved:-
No.1- Saving grace of God. This is provided by Lord Jesus Christ dying on the cross.
No 2 - Faith of the believer. Not seeing and yet believing. [2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight]
If any one of the two requirements is not met, the saving plan of God does not work.

Definition of:-
Sight - When you see the Lord Jesus face to face in His glorified powerful state and He supernaturally open your eyes to let you know who He is.
Faith - When you believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour though you have not seen Him face to face in His glorified state.

When an unbeliever dies physically and goes to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord God at the Great White Throne, the Lord would have open the unbelievers eyes and so he is doing so by SIGHT and NOT by FAITH. This implies that requirement no.2 is not met. The unbeliever can swear allegiance, bow and confess that Jesus is Lord a thousand times with sincerity, tears, bloody knees from kneeling and bruised forehead from knocking on the ground, he will not be forgiven or saved because he did so by sight and not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6 -But without faith it is impossible to please him.

The wages of sin is death and thus the unbeliever will die (2nd death) in the lake of fire.

All genuine believers have already confessed that Jesus Christ is the Lord whilst alive on earth. God the Father is pleased and thus give the gift of eternal life to them.

All UR should note also that the Holy Spirit is God and holy, He will never enter the unbeliever's body at the Great White Throne to help him confess that Jesus is Lord because faith has turn to sight and the unbeliever cannot please the Lord any longer. Thus the Lord will never sanctify the unbeliever. An unsanctified unbeliever's body is unclean and full of female sanitary napkin (bloody, dirty, smelly) as describe by Isaiah 64; 6. - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags.

Do not profane the holy name of the Holy Spirit by suggesting that He will enter the unbelievers at the Great White Throne to help them confess that Jesus is Lord.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,687,052 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Why preach the gospel at all?

Without a doubt this is one of the most asked questions of Universalist, everywhere we post we come across this question.

Here is my answer to this question

For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death, but saved by His life.

All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.

So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled, but not all men are yet saved from sin and death.

Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim His salvation by His LIFE.
His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such, but is a long process of walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved.


Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed[/color] , and we are to do this so that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have. Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His LIFE.

When we witness about that which Jesus done, we are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His death, this fact breathes hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again for us.

So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.

If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men also? Can we really separate His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed up of LIFE?

God bless
Very good post. I agree. There was one act and not several. Christ is NOT re-crucified every time someone chooses to believe.

 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:09 AM
 
7,814 posts, read 10,717,167 times
Reputation: 3443
This is the third and last "mod cut" to remind everyone to please remain on topic, or this one's a "gonner."

Thanks!
 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:12 AM
 
7,814 posts, read 10,717,167 times
Reputation: 3443


P.S. ~~Folks, please DO NOT post in RED, as it makes it that much more difficult for us to do 'mod cuts' within posts when necessary.

Blue, green, and violet are all real nice colors!!!

Thanks!
 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,687,052 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The redemptive plan of God has always been that believers are saved because they confess Jesus Christ is Lord, the Son of God and Messiah WITHOUT seeing Him in His glorified state.

According to Ephesians 2:8 - By grace are ye save through faith. There are 2 important requirements for a believer to be saved:-
No.1- Saving grace of God. This is provided by Lord Jesus Christ dying on the cross.
No 2 - Faith of the believer. Not seeing and yet believing. [2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight]
If any one of the two requirements is not met, the saving plan of God does not work.

Definition of:-
Sight - When you see the Lord Jesus face to face in His glorified powerful state and He supernaturally open your eyes to let you know who He is.
Faith - When you believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour though you have not seen Him face to face in His glorified state.

When an unbeliever dies physically and goes to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord God at the Great White Throne, the Lord would have open the unbelievers eyes and so he is doing so by SIGHT and NOT by FAITH. This implies that requirement no.2 is not met. The unbeliever can swear allegiance, bow and confess that Jesus is Lord a thousand times with sincerity, tears, bloody knees from kneeling and bruised forehead from knocking on the ground, he will not be forgiven or saved because he did so by sight and not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6 -But without faith it is impossible to please him.

The wages of sin is death and thus the unbeliever will die (2nd death) in the lake of fire.

All genuine believers have already confessed that Jesus Christ is the Lord whilst alive on earth. God the Father is pleased and thus give the gift of eternal life to them.

All UR should note also that the Holy Spirit is God and holy, He will never enter the unbeliever's body at the Great White Throne to help him confess that Jesus is Lord because faith has turn to sight and the unbeliever cannot please the Lord any longer. Thus the Lord will never sanctify the unbeliever. An unsanctified unbeliever's body is unclean and full of female sanitary napkin (bloody, dirty, smelly) as describe by Isaiah 64; 6. - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags.

Do not profane the holy name of the Holy Spirit by suggesting that He will enter the unbelievers at the Great White Throne to help them confess that Jesus is Lord.
You say "genuine believer" as if there are some believers that are NOT genuine.... how do you know if you are "genuine" according to God's standards of genuineness?

If I have faith that an asteroid will hit the earth does that change the course of any asteroids in space?

Faith doesn't affect anything but the person having or not having faith.... but you seem to think that faith somehow benefits God...

Does God NEED faith to honor his promise to make all things new?
 
Old 07-15-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,243,915 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The redemptive plan of God has always been that believers are saved because they confess Jesus Christ is Lord, the Son of God and Messiah WITHOUT seeing Him in His glorified state.

According to Ephesians 2:8 - By grace are ye save through faith. There are 2 important requirements for a believer to be saved:-
No.1- Saving grace of God. This is provided by Lord Jesus Christ dying on the cross.
No 2 - Faith of the believer. Not seeing and yet believing. [2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight]
If any one of the two requirements is not met, the saving plan of God does not work.

Definition of:-
Sight - When you see the Lord Jesus face to face in His glorified powerful state and He supernaturally open your eyes to let you know who He is.
Faith - When you believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour though you have not seen Him face to face in His glorified state.

When an unbeliever dies physically and goes to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord God at the Great White Throne, the Lord would have open the unbelievers eyes and so he is doing so by SIGHT and NOT by FAITH. This implies that requirement no.2 is not met. The unbeliever can swear allegiance, bow and confess that Jesus is Lord a thousand times with sincerity, tears, bloody knees from kneeling and bruised forehead from knocking on the ground, he will not be forgiven or saved because he did so by sight and not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6 -But without faith it is impossible to please him.

The wages of sin is death and thus the unbeliever will die (2nd death) in the lake of fire.

All genuine believers have already confessed that Jesus Christ is the Lord whilst alive on earth. God the Father is pleased and thus give the gift of eternal life to them.

All UR should note also that the Holy Spirit is God and holy, He will never enter the unbeliever's body at the Great White Throne to help him confess that Jesus is Lord because faith has turn to sight and the unbeliever cannot please the Lord any longer. Thus the Lord will never sanctify the unbeliever. An unsanctified unbeliever's body is unclean and full of female sanitary napkin (bloody, dirty, smelly) as describe by Isaiah 64; 6. - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags.

Do not profane the holy name of the Holy Spirit by suggesting that He will enter the unbelievers at the Great White Throne to help them confess that Jesus is Lord.
Hmmmm, was doubting Thomas then not saved? He refussed to beleive until he saw and touched.
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