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Old 07-15-2010, 10:37 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,005,813 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Hmmmm, was doubting Thomas then not saved? He refussed to beleive until he saw and touched.
Paul was also saved by sight and not faith....

 
Old 07-15-2010, 12:08 PM
 
22,862 posts, read 10,747,029 times
Reputation: 3854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The redemptive plan of God has always been that believers are saved because they confess Jesus Christ is Lord, the Son of God and Messiah WITHOUT seeing Him in His glorified state.

According to Ephesians 2:8 - By grace are ye save through faith. There are 2 important requirements for a believer to be saved:-
No.1- Saving grace of God. This is provided by Lord Jesus Christ dying on the cross.
No 2 - Faith of the believer. Not seeing and yet believing. [2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight]
If any one of the two requirements is not met, the saving plan of God does not work.

Definition of:-
Sight - When you see the Lord Jesus face to face in His glorified powerful state and He supernaturally open your eyes to let you know who He is.
Faith - When you believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour though you have not seen Him face to face in His glorified state.

When an unbeliever dies physically and goes to bow and confess that Jesus is Lord God at the Great White Throne, the Lord would have open the unbelievers eyes and so he is doing so by SIGHT and NOT by FAITH. This implies that requirement no.2 is not met. The unbeliever can swear allegiance, bow and confess that Jesus is Lord a thousand times with sincerity, tears, bloody knees from kneeling and bruised forehead from knocking on the ground, he will not be forgiven or saved because he did so by sight and not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6 -But without faith it is impossible to please him.

The wages of sin is death and thus the unbeliever will die (2nd death) in the lake of fire.

All genuine believers have already confessed that Jesus Christ is the Lord whilst alive on earth. God the Father is pleased and thus give the gift of eternal life to them.

All UR should note also that the Holy Spirit is God and holy, He will never enter the unbeliever's body at the Great White Throne to help him confess that Jesus is Lord because faith has turn to sight and the unbeliever cannot please the Lord any longer. Thus the Lord will never sanctify the unbeliever. An unsanctified unbeliever's body is unclean and full of female sanitary napkin (bloody, dirty, smelly) as describe by Isaiah 64; 6. - But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags.

Do not profane the holy name of the Holy Spirit by suggesting that He will enter the unbelievers at the Great White Throne to help them confess that Jesus is Lord.
This has to be one of the most profane descriptions of our loving God yet presented here!!!! This unforgivingModerator cut: edit God you describe is not only NOT our God . . . He would barely be considered a civilized human!! The God of UR is the God of our loving Jesus . . . not some primitive barbarian God of torture and unforgiveness.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 07-15-2010 at 12:45 PM.. Reason: changed "bastard" reference to God whether it is referring to ours or theirs it is inappropriate
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,271 posts, read 3,588,283 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
So let me get this straight.

Another poster made a point that really struck me. He/She said that it appears that universalism teaches that all will be saved in time. It really doesn't matter whether or not you accept Jesus in the end. We'll all be in the same place. Accepting Jesus just makes the process a bit easier. You just avoid a few 100 or 1000 years of refining by fire. And really what's a 1000 years in the light of eternity? Just a flash.

Seems like it really doesn't matter if you trust Jesus per the UR folk. Jesus just makes the process of being with God a bit easier. Not necessary, just easier.

Dang. I think I'll quit church, Jesus and God and live according to the flesh. No point in trusting in Jesus. I'll see y'all in Heaven.

Don't need Jesus or nothing. I am saved regardless!

Not to worry......I am just making a point.

Exactly!! Ever heard such nonsense? It CANCELS out Jesus and the cross. It tells the vilest of sinners......"You will be saved eventually, carry on as usual"! It praises itself! No glory to God! No acknowledging that it was His physical body, in our place mind you!! It carries no respect for the Most High God, whatsoever! For this false doctrine......it bypasses the SON and goes straight to the throne; where it TOO, SHALL BE JUDGED!! Don't think for one moment that confessing He's God, cancels out JUDGMENT!!
....
Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (Romans 5:9)


It through HIS BLOOD that we are saved!! It's saving YOU FROM SOMETHING........HIS WRATH! NO SHORT CUTS!! UR...........What blatant blasphemy!!


Father forgive them........
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,540,489 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Exactly!! Ever heard such nonsense? It CANCELS out Jesus and the cross. It tells the vilest of sinners......"You will be saved eventually, carry on as usual"! It praises itself! No glory to God! No acknowledging that it was His physical body, in our place mind you!! It carries no respect for the Most High God, whatsoever! For this false doctrine......it bypasses the SON and goes straight to the throne; where it TOO SHALL BE JUDGE!! Don't think for one moment that confessing He's God, cancels out JUDGMENT!!

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (Romans 5:9)


It through HIS BLOOD that we are saved!! NO SHORT CUTS!! UR...........What blatant blasphemy!!


Father forgive them........
eek gad

I don't know how many time we have to say it is ONLY because of the blood of Jesus that we beleive in the greater hope.

You people really do not understand what we are saying or completely ignore what we say, I am not sure which it is, but as you beleive the UR'est does not beleive in the blood of christ to salvation please by all means show us where a UR'er said this.

If you cannot you are just bearing false witness, something that should not be done.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:20 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,360,293 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Exactly!! Ever heard such nonsense? It CANCELS out Jesus and the cross. It tells the vilest of sinners......"You will be saved eventually, carry on as usual"! It praises itself! No glory to God! No acknowledging that it was His physical body, in our place mind you!! It carries no respect for the Most High God, whatsoever! For this false doctrine......it bypasses the SON and goes straight to the throne; where it TOO, SHALL BE JUDGED!! Don't think for one moment that confessing He's God, cancels out JUDGMENT!!
....
Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (Romans 5:9)


It through HIS BLOOD that we are saved!! It's saving YOU FROM SOMETHING........HIS WRATH! NO SHORT CUTS!! UR...........What blatant blasphemy!!


Father forgive them........

Here we have it.......


All will be saved through Jesus Christ, there is no bypassing Christ, all Confess Jesus as Lord.

Now, again, YOU betsey. get your desire, I know you betsey, you hope that all Confess Jesus as Lord, but you have been sold a bill of goods that makes you doubt that this blessed assurance is indeed in scripture.

You just won't believe it because you think it is to good to be true.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,271 posts, read 3,588,283 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
eek gad

I don't know how many time we have to say it is ONLY because of the blood of Jesus that we beleive in the greater hope.

You people really do not understand what we are saying or completely ignore what we say, I am not sure which it is, but as you beleive the UR'est does not beleive in the blood of christ to salvation please by all means show us where a UR'er said this.

If you cannot you are just bearing false witness, something that should not be done.

You said: "I don't know how many time we have to say it is ONLY because of the blood of Jesus that we beleive in the greater hope."

Betsey asks:
So, how is it YOU ALSO SAY: If one does not believe in THE BLOOD NOW.....NOW, N-O-W while yet alive.....!! That this SAME BLOOD........S-A-M-E will make them believe THEN?

How so? Because....All knee will bow and tongue confesses that He's Lord? Does confession revoke, cancels, discard, expunge, rule out, abrogate, annul, blots out JUST REWARDS? JUDGMENT?

Who told you that lie?
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:22 PM
 
10,172 posts, read 4,819,024 times
Reputation: 732
pneuma, some are beyond hope until God opens their eyes and heart to the truth.

Christ died for all mankind's sins therefore all the sins of mankind have been died for. All mankind cannot be saved apart from what Christ did on the cross.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:23 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,360,293 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
"I don't know how many time we have to say it is ONLY because of the blood of Jesus that we beleive in the greater hope."

So, how is it YOU ALSO SAY: If one does not believe in THE BLOOD NOW.....NOW, N-O-W while yet alive.....!! That this SAME BLOOD..S-A-M-E will make them believe THEN?

How so? Because....All knee will bow and tongue confesses that He's Lord? Does confession revoke, cancels, discard, expunge, rule out, abrogate, annul, blot out JUST REWARDS? JUDGMENT?

Who told you that lie?


The same BLOOD is before everyone that Confesses Jesus as Lord, if I have to think that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not matter, then there is no assurance in that, it makes it untrustworthy.


You can't even bank on your confession that Jesus is Lord if someone elses confession that Jesus is Lord may not matter, there is absolutely no way you can assure me of anything. Not a chance can you.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:24 PM
 
10,172 posts, read 4,819,024 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
"I don't know how many time we have to say it is ONLY because of the blood of Jesus that we beleive in the greater hope."

So, how is it YOU ALSO SAY: If one does not believe in THE BLOOD NOW.....NOW, N-O-W while yet alive.....!! That this SAME BLOOD..S-A-M-E will make them believe THEN?

How so? Because....All knee will bow and tongue confesses that He's Lord? Does confession revoke, cancels, discard, expunge, rule out, abrogate, annul, blot out JUST REWARDS? JUDGMENT?

Who told you that lie?
Betsy, you mean an unsaved person can bow the knee in the name of Jesus (Jesus meaning Saviour) and acclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father while being unsaved?

If they are calling Jesus Lord, especially to the glory of the Father, this means they are actually DOING what their Lord (Jesus) is telling them to do.
 
Old 07-15-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,271 posts, read 3,588,283 times
Reputation: 874
Let me ask you yet another question.........

If the RECONCILING WAS DONE at the CROSS, through HIS BLOOD, in HIS PHYSICAL BODY, you die without believing, accepting.....blatantly, constantly, rejecting...... THE CROSS, THE BLOOD OF JESUS, how then are you saved? If at the cross, IT"S FINISHED!! DONE!





Do we put Him on yet another?
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