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Old 07-14-2010, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Not worried, since you are not explaining Christian Universalism in the first place.
Then explain it. Or maybe I am wrong and not everyone ends up in heaven-reconcilled to God

 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,008 posts, read 34,311,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
So let me get this straight.

Another poster made a point that really struck me. He/She said that it appears that universalism teaches that all will be saved in time. It really doesn't matter whether or not you accept Jesus in the end. We'll all be in the same place. Accepting Jesus just makes the process a bit easier. You just avoid a few 100 or 1000 years of refining by fire. And really what's a 1000 years in the light of eternity? Just a flash.

Seems like it really doesn't matter if you trust Jesus per the UR folk. Jesus just makes the process of being with God a bit easier. Not necesary, just easier.

Dang. I think I'll quit church, Jesus and God and live asccording to the flesh. No point in trusting in Jesus. I'll see y'all in Heaven.

Don't need Jesus or nothin'. I am saved regardless!
Yep, that's it in a nutshell. No need to believe in Christ, because if you die as unbeliever you will be forced into belief after death. Be it 100, 1000, 10 000 or a million years of 'refinement', eventually you will believe. That's UR for you.

And if you take this belief and compare it to some 200 verses in the bible which talk about the need for faith to be saved (like John 3:16), you will find that it is not in harmony with the rest of the bible. When you run into this kind of contradiction in the Bible, the warning lights should go off to tell you that something is not right, that you misunderstood something. There is no contradiction in the Bible, and the fact that the same message is repeated 200 time, tells you that God wanted to make something crystal clear.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:10 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yep, that's it in a nutshell. No need to believe in Christ, because if you die as unbeliever you will be forced into belief after death. Be it 100, 1000, 10 000 or a million years of 'refinement', eventually you will believe. That's UR for you.

And if you take this belief and compare it to some 200 verses in the bible which talk about the need for faith to be saved (like John 3:16), you will find that it is not in harmony with the rest of the bible. When you run into this kind of contradiction in the Bible, the warning lights should go off to tell you that something is not right, that you misunderstood something. There is no contradiction in the Bible, and the fact that the same message is repeated 200 time, tells you that God wanted to make something crystal clear.
Yep, and it is the same message since the fall in the garden.

Sin, and die.

Satan is the only one who said you would NOT die.

So, according to UR folk, Satan was telling the truth?

And we should know he was not talking about the flesh, so pass over that for a comment.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:37 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Then explain it. Or maybe I am wrong and not everyone ends up in heaven-reconcilled to God

Everyone is saved through faith in Jesus Christ.


Did you get it right, or did I misunderstand you.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:54 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Mere semantics.You know very well what your version of not having faith in Christ involves.Why do you play your word games?Are you suggesting that in your belief not having faith in Christ doesn't result in hell?You know it does,so why play the childish game of "I didn't use the H word" when you know that it is inferred?What are they being saved from if not hell?

Again,why the silly word games?


Cause he hasn't got anything else to use.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,008 posts, read 34,311,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Mere semantics.You know very well what your version of not having faith in Christ involves.Why do you play your word games?Are you suggesting that in your belief not having faith in Christ doesn't result in hell?You know it does,so why play the childish game of "I didn't use the H word" when you know that it is inferred?What are they being saved from if not hell?

Again,why the silly word games?
Word games? Let's see: the URs attack Christians on daily bases by claiming all they talk about is hell, and when I talk about need for faith in Christ, you come in to claim that I say faith, but I mean hell????

Sorry, but it is you who is playing games here, not me.

I think you are better off defending your own faith as opposed to smearing mine.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,570 posts, read 21,713,951 times
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If you guys want this thread to remain open please be a little more civil towards each other.


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Old 07-14-2010, 08:37 AM
 
40,044 posts, read 26,725,598 times
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::Sigh:: We are ALL eternal because our consciousnesses are pure energy and energy cannot be destroyed, period. We would be permanently separated from God because of our carnal natures . . . BUT Jesus with His perfect Consciousness SAVED our entire species by elevating His HUMAN consciousness into IDENTITY (perfect resonance) with God's consciousness. Upon His death and rebirth as Spirit we ALL have access to the Father THROUGH the HUMAN consciousness of Jesus (Holy Spirit) by achieving harmonic resonance with HIM in "love of God and each other." There is NO OTHER WAY for a human to achieve this connection with God, PERIOD!

Either way . . . we remain eternal . . . but if our consciousness is evil or not in some kind of harmony with Jesus' we will reap the consequences of the need to "refine" and relive ALL those evil moments we inflicted on others in complete knowledge and understanding of our evil in the light of God's spiritual fire. We ALL must reap what we sow. But repentance and achieving harmony with Jesus in "love of God and each other" in this life provides a kind of "pre-payment plan refinement." But . . . NOBODY gets a free ride!
 
Old 07-14-2010, 08:44 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,276 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
::Sigh:: We are ALL eternal because our consciousnesses are pure energy and energy cannot be destroyed, period. We would be permanently separated from God because of our carnal natures . . . BUT Jesus with His perfect Consciousness SAVED our entire species by elevating His HUMAN consciousness into IDENTITY (perfect resonance) with God's consciousness. Upon His death and rebirth as Spirit we ALL have access to the Father THROUGH the HUMAN consciousness of Jesus (Holy Spirit) by achieving harmonic resonance with HIM in "love of God and each other." There is NO OTHER WAY for a human to achieve this connection with God, PERIOD!

Either way . . . we remain eternal . . . but if our consciousness is evil or not in some kind of harmony with Jesus' we will reap the consequences of the need to "refine" and relive ALL those evil moments we inflicted on others in complete knowledge and understanding of our evil in the light of God's spiritual fire. We ALL must reap what we sow. But repentance and achieving harmony with Jesus in "love of God and each other" in this life provides a kind of "pre-payment plan refinement." But . . . NOBODY gets a free ride!

Well put, that relates to what I believe as well.

To me what the bible says is not going to be in the kingdom is assurance that God will not let us remain tarnished.
 
Old 07-14-2010, 08:49 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,557,280 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Word games? Let's see: the URs attack Christians on daily bases by claiming all they talk about is hell, and when I talk about need for faith in Christ, you come in to claim that I say faith, but I mean hell????

Sorry, but it is you who is playing games here, not me.

I think you are better off defending your own faith as opposed to smearing mine.
This thread was started by an ET proclaiming that UR says all will be saved,so we can all live our lives as we want because in the end we end up in the same place.And you yourself admit talking about the need for faith in Christ.

So then answer me this question.WHAT is the faith in Christ that is needed saving people FROM?



Answer that and you'll see why I say word games.
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