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Old 07-15-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,546,438 times
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...here Richard...I made it easy for you..now you can read IN CONTEXT! what is ACTUALLY being discussed here between Mystic and myself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
ALL OF THIS SPEAKS OF THE TRUE OBEDIENT BELIEVING CHRISTIAN, WHO IS EITHER ALIVE AND LIVING IN HIS WILL...OR HAS DIED AND WAITING TO BE RAISED UNTO HIM IN HIS PRESENCE...IT IS NOT!...I REPEAT NOT! SPEAKING TO ANYONE WHO IS LIVING IN THEIR SIN...OR WHO DIES IN THEIR SIN! THOSE WHO LIVE OR DIE IN THIER SIN...ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD! PERIOD!

Romans 14:11"...for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Philippians 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.


14:9 (For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived. The life of the Christian is a new life that springs out of Christ's death; we die with him; we rise with him...

Romans 6:4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
That he might be Lord of the dead and living. Hence, since our life comes from him, and springs from his death and resurrection, these make him our Lord, whether we be living or dead.

He is Lord of those that are living, to rule them; of those that are dead, to revive them, and raise them up.

Let every man search his own heart and life.

We should begin to lead a new life, as though we were already in heaven.

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
By what twisted rationale can you possibly see this as applying to ONLY believers? The wording unambiguously implies a general audience. Why would believers (who already bow to Him, etc.) be referred to as "SHALL" or "WILL?" Every means "EVERY!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
EVERY MEANS EVERY BELIEVER!

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

14:9 (For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived. The life of the Christian is a new life that springs out of Christ's death; we die with him; we rise with him) ...

Romans 6:4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

When you die in your sins, your dead soul dies dead...and when God raises up the dead souls from their dead grave to stand before him a second time at the Great White Throne of Judgement, they will DIE THE SECOND DEATH...which means they will FOREVER BE SEPARATED FROM GOD FOREVER!...how difficult is this to understand...?

Rev 20:14 Death and hell were thrown into the fiery lake. (The fiery lake is the second death.)

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Revelation 20:6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their [the believer's who saw their salvation] eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things [all the sinners...liars...cheaters...blasphemers...idolate rs...murderers..haters of God and Jesus...darkness] have passed away."

New International Version(©1984)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."!!!!!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

Revelation 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will NOT! be hurt by the second death.'

Revelation 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

Revelation 21:27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it [the Kingdom of Heaven!], but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.


In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.

those who live and die in their sin are separated from God!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You did not answer why the use of "SHALL" and "WILL" then? No dodging and presenting irrelevant stuff. We KNOW what will not be allowed in the presence of God. We know the "Dross" will need to be cast out (refined)... But you do not seem to realize you are a continuing eternal (pure energy) "Soul Symphony" . . . not a single physical entity. There are parts of our "symphonies" (moments of our lives) that are discordant (off-key). They must be repented (replayed) in this life or the next because they can NEVER be in the presence of God.
In Christ's love,
Mystic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
What in the world are you talking about Mystic?...shall...?...will...?...You tell me what these two action words have to do with anything concerning every believer's knees bowing...? You brought it up...You explain what You think their usage means! You tell me!..because I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

Your ball.

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
OK . . . if they are ALREADY believers . . . they already DO Bow and Kneel, etc. . . . so it makes no sense for the verses to say they "SHALL or WILL" do so. Therefore it must refer to more than the believers . . . hence the "every" means "EVERY."

In Christ's love,
Mystic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I've gotta hand it to you Mystic...you and those of your ilk never cease to amaze me...nice stretch though...but no go. He is merely proclaimng that FINALLY!!!!...every knee that is a knee, will be a believing...worshipping...God praising knee...and will all give Him the glory He so deserves!!!!...He's speaking joyfully!!!...like....."AHHHHHH!!!!...AT LAST!!!!..........No more wicked unbeliever's!!!!"

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Verna...read your post here...you sound like a Universalist...
...You know Richard...I find it very helpful to read the thread before I start accusing someone of saying something or "sounding" like they believe something that they never said nor SOUNDED! like...

You know...You find it very easy to judge the merits and faults of others...and no one I can see has escaped your disapproval...you stalk people...why don't you just read the entire thread and then respond respectfully...and back up what you say with proof...scripturally that is...not opinion...everyone has one of those...

Thank you,
Verna.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: US
28,735 posts, read 15,784,194 times
Reputation: 1904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
One cannot confess that Jesus is lord except by the holy spirit. Twin spins entire premise concerning the wicked being forced to bow and confess misses the mark.

The word confess in that verse is "exomologeō" in the Greek and literally cannot possibly mean a confession under duress or by coercion.

The word "exomologeō" means a willing and joyful confession of thanks and celebration and implies a promise or oath of fealty.

exomologeō -

1) to confess
2) to profess
a) acknowledge openly and joyfully
b) to one's honour: to celebrate, give praise to
c) to profess that one will do something, to promise, agree, engage



And Vernas premise that it is only those that believe before they die that will bow is also completely false. As revelations is clear that it is all things in heaven and in earth and beneath the earth that confess and praise God, as well as the verse just previous to the one in question.

Phl 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


Both Verna and Twin Spin and all who agree with either of them are either ignorant of the meaning of the word "exomologeō" or they are simply being disingenuous ...



Peace ...
ex-om-ol-og-eh'-o
From G1537 and G3670; to acknowledge or (by implication of assent) agree fully: - confess, profess, promise.

I don't know where you are getting your translations from...maybe the same place as the JWs did...
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:33 AM
 
Location: US
28,735 posts, read 15,784,194 times
Reputation: 1904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...here Richard...I made it easy for you..now you can read IN CONTEXT! what is ACTUALLY being discussed here between Mystic and myself...

















...You know Richard...I find it very helpful to read the thread before I start accusing someone of saying something or "sounding" like they believe something that they never said nor SOUNDED! like...

You know...You find it very easy to judge the merits and faults of others...and no one I can see has escaped your disapproval...you stalk people...why don't you just read the entire thread and then respond respectfully...and back up what you say with proof...scripturally that is...not opinion...everyone has one of those...

Thank you,
Verna.
Like i said...read your post, the wording sounds universalistic...just pointing it out...that is why a UR agreed with you that everyone will be saved in the end...'everyone that has a knee'...meaning 'everyone is going to be saved...
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:38 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,804,202 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Like i said...read your post, the wording sounds universalistic...just pointing it out...that is why a UR agreed with you that everyone will be saved in the end...'everyone that has a knee'...meaning 'everyone is going to be saved...
So Richard, who do you think it is who has no knees?
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,546,438 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Like i said...read your post, the wording sounds universalistic...just pointing it out...that is why a UR agreed with you that everyone will be saved in the end...'everyone that has a knee'...meaning 'everyone is going to be saved...
Everyone THAT IS LEFT WILL! bow down on their knees and cry "HOLY!...HOLY!...HOLY! is the Lamb of God!"


...there will BE NO MORE unbeliever's because they will all be dead in their sin......lifeless...soul dead...buried...destroyed...total destruction of the soul...forever separated from God.


It will be a new heaven and a new earth...no sin...no tears...no pain...no sorrow...no want or need for anything but our King...our God...our Father.

And God will glory in all those knees..the knees of the saints...bowing down before Him praising His Holy Name!!!

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna....
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:54 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,942,496 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Everyone THAT IS LEFT WILL! bow down on their knees and cry "HOLY!...HOLY!...HOLY! is the Lamb of God!"


...there will BE NO MORE unbeliever's because they will all be dead in their sin......lifeless...soul dead...buried...destroyed...total destruction of the soul...forever separated from God.


It will be a new heaven and a new earth...no sin...no tears...no pain...no sorrow...no want or need for anything but our King...our God...our Father.

And God will glory in all those knees..the knees of the saints...bowing down before Him praising His Holy Name!!!

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna....

The passage does not say everyone that is left, you had it right the first time.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,863,949 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Everyone THAT IS LEFT WILL! bow down on their knees and cry "HOLY!...HOLY!...HOLY! is the Lamb of God!"


...there will BE NO MORE unbeliever's because they will all be dead in their sin......lifeless...soul dead...buried...destroyed...total destruction of the soul...forever separated from God.


It will be a new heaven and a new earth...no sin...no tears...no pain...no sorrow...no want or need for anything but our King...our God...our Father.

And God will glory in all those knees..the knees of the saints...bowing down before Him praising His Holy Name!!!

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna....
Well if that is the case... I can see why you treat some people like they are already lifeless, soul dead buried.... and useless..

The only thing that bothers me about annihilation is.. why are they on the earth if they 1. have no chance at salvation (there was one act on the cross not several) 2. just going to be utterly destroyed anyway.

??? Anyone know what the purpose of even having unbelievers around is?
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:04 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,942,496 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Well if that is the case... I can see why you treat some people like they are already lifeless, soul dead buried.... and useless..

The only thing that bothers me about annihilation is.. why are they on the earth if they 1. have no chance at salvation (there was one act on the cross not several) 2. just going to be utterly destroyed anyway.

??? Anyone know what the purpose of even having unbelievers around is?


barbequed snacks??? It is figurative, they are barbequed and then when the saints eat them, they are no more.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,546,438 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
So Richard, who do you think it is who has no knees?
I'm not Richard...but I have an answer...

...everyone will have knees...even the ones who are dead in their sin...but they will be gone, with their knees leading them to their final destiny...and it isn't with God.

The knees of the wicked will be bowing...but not in heaven...not in the Kingdom of God....they will be destroyed...the soul will be totally destroyed.

...and I pray to God that as many as possible will hear what the Spirit is trying to say to them in these last days...there is still time...but God and God alone only...knows when your time is up...He never promised any of us a tomorrow..today could very well be your last day here on earth...I pray you get down on your knees now...and cry out to God and repent of your sins...and go...and sin no more...by the power of the Holy Spirit of Christ...keep the ten commandments of God that is written upon the hearts of those who will.

In Christ''s love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,863,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
barbequed snacks??? It is figurative, they are barbequed and then when the saints eat them, they are no more.
LOL I love BBQ.... but I prefer non-human meat myself.

Perhaps we should start burning people at the stake again... then we can really help God out. Save him some propane.

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