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Old 07-16-2010, 10:55 AM
 
38 posts, read 42,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Richard ... why don't you follow the link i gave ... ? Look, go to this link and do a word search ... Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon


And the Thayers definition...


The Great Confession

The Lord God has ordained that the only way a man can pleased Him on earth is by faith. Thus if a believer bow down and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour on earth without seeing Him in His glorified state, He is pleased and gives the gift of eternal life to the believer.

When the unbeliever meets the Lord Jesus at the Great White Throne, the Lord will supernaturally open the unbeliever’s eyes. The unbeliever’s would have thus bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord by SIGHT. This does not please the Lord (For without faith, it is impossible to please Him) and hence He will not forgive nor save the unbeliever.

The unbeliever will have to suffer for his sins which is the second death in the Lake of Fire. For the wages of sin is death.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:04 AM
 
40,193 posts, read 26,820,188 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The Lord God has ordained that the only way a man can pleased Him on earth is by faith. Thus if a believer bow down and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour on earth without seeing Him in His glorified state, He is pleased and gives the gift of eternal life to the believer.

When the unbeliever meets the Lord Jesus at the Great White Throne, the Lord will supernaturally open the unbeliever’s eyes. The unbeliever’s would have thus bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord by SIGHT. This does not please the Lord (For without faith, it is impossible to please Him) and hence He will not forgive nor save the unbeliever.

The unbeliever will have to suffer for his sins which is the second death in the Lake of Fire. For the wages of sin is death.
Please schmease!! We can do NOTHING to add to God in any way . . . including His pleasure!! Like any GOOD parent . . . His concern is for His children . . . NOT Himself. What He desires us to do benefits US . . . NOT Him. Like He was with Thomas . . . once the belief is there . . . we will have achieved what He desires for us . . . whenever and however it happens!! The exclusivist and divisive condemnatory nonsense you believe is FALSE.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,770,505 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Please schmease!! We can do NOTHING to add to God in any way . . . including His pleasure!! Like any GOOD parent . . . His concern is for His children . . . NOT Himself. What He desires us to do benefits US . . . NOT Him. Like He was with Thomas . . . once the belief is there . . . we will have achieved what He desires for us . . . whenever and however it happens!! The exclusivist and divisive condemnatory nonsense you believe is FALSE.
The Bible disagrees with you.

Psalms 147:11 "The LORD takes pleasure in those who fear Him, In those who hope in His mercy."

Hebrews 13:15-16 "Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. {16} But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased."
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:38 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,916 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The Lord God has ordained that the only way a man can pleased Him on earth is by faith. Thus if a believer bow down and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour on earth without seeing Him in His glorified state, He is pleased and gives the gift of eternal life to the believer.

When the unbeliever meets the Lord Jesus at the Great White Throne, the Lord will supernaturally open the unbeliever’s eyes. The unbeliever’s would have thus bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord by SIGHT. This does not please the Lord (For without faith, it is impossible to please Him) and hence He will not forgive nor save the unbeliever.

The unbeliever will have to suffer for his sins which is the second death in the Lake of Fire. For the wages of sin is death.
Your belief would mean Paul and Thomas were not saved because they both believed by sight. Once a person believes by sight, it's done and they wouldn't be able to go back in time and believe by faith.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,187,490 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Your belief would mean Paul and Thomas were not saved because they both believed by sight. Once a person believes by sight, it's done and they wouldn't be able to go back in time and believe by faith.
Not so.

1. Thomas placed his faith in Jesus earlier recorded in scripture. [no this isn't going to be a case of osas...]

2. God said Paul's conversion was abnormal...

3. All of Paul's writings is based on what Jesus taught him. That is why Paul writes .. "By Faith"
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:57 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,916 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Not so.

1. Thomas placed his faith in Jesus earlier recorded in scripture. [no this isn't going to be a case of osas...]

2. God said Paul's conversion was abnormal...

3. All of Paul's writings is based on what Jesus taught him. That is why Paul writes .. "By Faith"
About the Thomas thing, I'm not so sure about what you said. Can you be a true believer and not believe in Christ's resurrection? I would think most would say no, so that puts Thomas in a quandary. He believed in His resurrection only by sight, not faith.

We know Paul's conversion was abnormal because God doesn't generally go around revealing himself by sight. But God is no respecter of persons, so IMO, I don't think he would give one person a huge benefit of being saved by sight, and then when other people die and believe by sight, they are sent to burn in hell.

Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:17 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,412,887 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The Lord God has ordained that the only way a man can pleased Him on earth is by faith. Thus if a believer bow down and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour on earth without seeing Him in His glorified state, He is pleased and gives the gift of eternal life to the believer.

When the unbeliever meets the Lord Jesus at the Great White Throne, the Lord will supernaturally open the unbeliever’s eyes. The unbeliever’s would have thus bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord by SIGHT. This does not please the Lord (For without faith, it is impossible to please Him) and hence He will not forgive nor save the unbeliever.

The unbeliever will have to suffer for his sins which is the second death in the Lake of Fire. For the wages of sin is death.
And what about the apostle Paul who did not believe until he saw the Christ in his glorified state on the road to Damascus and had his spiritual eyes opened at that time?

Or what about Doubting Thomas who would not believe until he saw Christ risen from the dead?

What you claim from that verse is not what that verse means. According to Paul, faith hope and love will exist after all things are restored unto God.

Christ said to Thomas "you have seen and believed, but blessed are they who have not seen and believed"(paraphrase). He did not say, "damned are they who only believe after having seen" ...

That is simply ridiculous ...

Even those of us who believe without having seen only have faith because it was a gift from God, just as repentance itself is a gift from God. We only believe because we were renewed by the spirit and given faith to repent and believe, for it is God who works within us both to will and do his good pleasure(Phl 2:13), and since faith is what pleases him(his good pleasure), then it is him that works in us to have faith to begin with.


Peace ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-16-2010 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:21 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,412,887 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Not so.

1. Thomas placed his faith in Jesus earlier recorded in scripture. [no this isn't going to be a case of osas...]

2. God said Paul's conversion was abnormal...

3. All of Paul's writings is based on what Jesus taught him. That is why Paul writes .. "By Faith"

Poppycock ... Pure and simple. Have you ever seen Christ? Yet you believe he existed and that he rose from the dead. Both Thomas and Paul did not believe Christ was risen from the dead until he appeared to them in person. You guys just make stuff up as you go along. Really ...
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:22 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,412,887 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
About the Thomas thing, I'm not so sure about what you said. Can you be a true believer and not believe in Christ's resurrection? I would think most would say no, so that puts Thomas in a quandary. He believed in His resurrection only by sight, not faith.

We know Paul's conversion was abnormal because God doesn't generally go around revealing himself by sight. But God is no respecter of persons, so IMO, I don't think he would give one person a huge benefit of being saved by sight, and then when other people die and believe by sight, they are sent to burn in hell.

Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.

Exactly, God is not a respecter of persons ...
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,442,179 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.
Oh really...care to elaborate?
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