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Old 07-17-2010, 04:24 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
lol try me sometime
lol...I've read a lot of your posts...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:30 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Presby View Post
The Lord God has ordained that the only way a man can pleased Him on earth is by faith. Thus if a believer bow down and confess that Jesus is Lord and Saviour on earth without seeing Him in His glorified state, He is pleased and gives the gift of eternal life to the believer.

When the unbeliever meets the Lord Jesus at the Great White Throne, the Lord will supernaturally open the unbeliever’s eyes. The unbeliever’s would have thus bow down and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord by SIGHT. This does not please the Lord (For without faith, it is impossible to please Him) and hence He will not forgive nor save the unbeliever.

The unbeliever will have to suffer for his sins which is the second death in the Lake of Fire. For the wages of sin is death.
It is nice to see someone using Systematic Theology to reason out scripture in logical Truth...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:32 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Please schmease!! We can do NOTHING to add to God in any way . . . including His pleasure!! Like any GOOD parent . . . His concern is for His children . . . NOT Himself. What He desires us to do benefits US . . . NOT Him. Like He was with Thomas . . . once the belief is there . . . we will have achieved what He desires for us . . . whenever and however it happens!! The exclusivist and divisive condemnatory nonsense you believe is FALSE.
What he said is scriptural...without Faith it is impossible to please Him...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:34 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Your belief would mean Paul and Thomas were not saved because they both believed by sight. Once a person believes by sight, it's done and they wouldn't be able to go back in time and believe by faith.
But, Paul and Thomas were not dead and resurrected before Him either...so, your point is moot...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:41 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
About the Thomas thing, I'm not so sure about what you said. Can you be a true believer and not believe in Christ's resurrection? I would think most would say no, so that puts Thomas in a quandary. He believed in His resurrection only by sight, not faith.

We know Paul's conversion was abnormal because God doesn't generally go around revealing himself by sight. But God is no respecter of persons, so IMO, I don't think he would give one person a huge benefit of being saved by sight, and then when other people die and believe by sight, they are sent to burn in hell.

Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.
Thomas simply was being cautious before running off half-cocked believing in the Person standing before him was in fact the Christ and not a trick...Paul could have easily thought he was having a hallucination, but by faith he believed that what he was seeing was real and not illusitory...We are told through out scripture to be sure of the messages being brought to us...test the spirits to see if they are of God or of the Devil...this is something we all should be doing to the nth degree...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:51 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
About the Thomas thing, I'm not so sure about what you said. Can you be a true believer and not believe in Christ's resurrection? I would think most would say no, so that puts Thomas in a quandary. He believed in His resurrection only by sight, not faith.

We know Paul's conversion was abnormal because God doesn't generally go around revealing himself by sight. But God is no respecter of persons, so IMO, I don't think he would give one person a huge benefit of being saved by sight, and then when other people die and believe by sight, they are sent to burn in hell.

Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.
He talked about it by implication...Paul wrote 14 letters from Romans to Hebrews...

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:56 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
And what about the apostle Paul who did not believe until he saw the Christ in his glorified state on the road to Damascus and had his spiritual eyes opened at that time?

Or what about Doubting Thomas who would not believe until he saw Christ risen from the dead?

What you claim from that verse is not what that verse means. According to Paul, faith hope and love will exist after all things are restored unto God.

Christ said to Thomas "you have seen and believed, but blessed are they who have not seen and believed"(paraphrase). He did not say, "damned are they who only believe after having seen" ...

That is simply ridiculous ...

Even those of us who believe without having seen only have faith because it was a gift from God, just as repentance itself is a gift from God. We only believe because we were renewed by the spirit and given faith to repent and believe, for it is God who works within us both to will and do his good pleasure(Phl 2:13), and since faith is what pleases him(his good pleasure), then it is him that works in us to have faith to begin with.


Peace ...
Thomas did not believe until he saw the resurrected Christ for He was standing right before him and yet he doubted...it was after he insisted on seeing the nail holes and wound in His side that he believed...so, you got that one wrong...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:57 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Exactly, God is not a respecter of persons ...
Which means?...
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:59 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.


That would be unnecessary since Paul said a lot of things, but nothing about a literal hell.
It was by implication...
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:05 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
Paul's conversion experience was NOT abnormal! He says it is a pattern for those who come to faith since him:

[15] This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. [16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. (1 Tim 1:15-16, AV)
He's talking about having patience there...
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