U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple centuries) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
I don't believe (as a URer) that there is any punishment after death... some take the lake of fire to be punishment... I don't . Gold is worth MORE when it is refined and feels nothing during the process. I personally believe that if the flesh is gone there is nothing to punish.

But that may just be me.

Who knows how long anything after life lasts? I mean if I had knowledge of that I'd be rich... wouldn't I..

Fact is we can't say anything for sure about any afterlife... so it is not that it is a fact of UR but a supposition of some who believe in UR.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:09 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,916 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple centuries) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
I don't know where you got that. That's not what I believe, and as long as I've been on the forum I've not once read a UR post that says someone has to get "good enough," and I've never even seen someone speculate how long it takes for someone to reap what they sow, although maybe someone did.

You need to understand that "UR" is not a denomination. It is a belief that God will reconcile all to himself. The main common thread is that God WILL NOT torture most of humanity, and that Christ is the Savior of the world and will not fail. Face it - not one single person living today can tell you what happens in the afterlife. UR believers can tell you what DOESN'T happen. God does not set people on fire. That is 180 degrees against his nature. IMO, anyone who believes God will torture people do not yet fully know the true and living God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,467 posts, read 15,436,866 times
Reputation: 11388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is a nice cliche but it is meaningless to me since scripture tells me that Christ died FOR ALL and ALL will confess JESUS as LORD.
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Do you think Confessing Jesus as LORD is pointless and has no positive effect on the one CONFESSING?
Believing in Christ allows a person to be born into the family of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Secondly, you need to realize, if you haven't, of course you may agree with the person I replied to, that this person doesn;t believe JESUS dies for ALL. He ONLY died for those who already believe according to him.
Just because I agree in one area does not mean we are 100% in agreement. I'm sure if someone said Mohammed is the Messiah that you and I would agree that's not true - even though we disagree here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,168,349 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Are you referring to a literal hell when you quote that? If so, how can a fireball "remain" on someone if it's not already there?
Don't understand the 2nd question....

The first is yes. There is a literal hell for a literal devil and his angels.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,815,580 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.
You said that ALL will confess regardless of location (heaven or hell). Are you saying that they will ALL be confess that Jesus is Lord?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:20 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,811 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.

So you do believe that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not have any effect. The passage that states that this will happen does not dictate that it is of no use, so if Confessing Jesus as Lord matters, then it will matter anywhere it is done. If that means hell is a place that can be escaped, then so be it.



Quote:

Believing in Christ allows a person to be born into the family of God.
Then when ALL believe in Christ, that will be the result.


Quote:

Just because I agree in one area does not mean we are 100% in agreement. I'm sure if someone said Mohammed is the Messiah that you and I would agree that's not true - even though we disagree here
I made no assertion that would cause us to be in agreement, I was pointing out why I said what I said.

Regaurdless of that or your disagreement, if Jesus paid for the sins of all, trying to make some case that one soul and only one soul saved means Christ is some sort of effective saviour is not really a good avenue to take because the premise is completely unscriptural in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,168,349 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post


You assert that ALL is incorrectly used, but there is no scriptural exclusions for that passage.
MANKIND in 1 Timothy 2:4 has no scriptural context to only mean "some"

Yes there is...for 1 Timothy 2:4

Only an intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage. That context is not in scripture.

Then you need to not use this as a explaination because the same can and is more applicable about UR...."a intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage."
answers in blue
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:26 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,735,309 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple millenia) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't believe (as a URer) that there is any punishment after death... some take the lake of fire to be punishment... I don't . Gold is worth MORE when it is refined and feels nothing during the process. I personally believe that if the flesh is gone there is nothing to punish.

But that may just be me.

Who knows how long anything after life lasts? I mean if I had knowledge of that I'd be rich... wouldn't I..

Fact is we can't say anything for sure about any afterlife... so it is not that it is a fact of UR but a supposition of some who believe in UR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I don't know where you got that. That's not what I believe, and as long as I've been on the forum I've not once read a UR post that says someone has to get "good enough," and I've never even seen someone speculate how long it takes for someone to reap what they sow, although maybe someone did.

You need to understand that "UR" is not a denomination. It is a belief that God will reconcile all to himself. The main common thread is that God WILL NOT torture most of humanity, and that Christ is the Savior of the world and will not fail. Face it - not one single person living today can tell you what happens in the afterlife. UR believers can tell you what DOESN'T happen. God does not set people on fire. That is 180 degrees against his nature. IMO, anyone who believes God will torture people do not yet fully know the true and living God.
There is NO PUNISHMENT by GOD for ANYTHING . . . but once the light of God's truth is cast upon our life . . . we will be fully aware of the import and experience the consequences of EVERY MOMENT of our life. WE would suffer such remorse and regret for those things we have not already repented of in this life . . . that it will be more than sufficient suffering to wish to avoid it. Its duration and content will be solely dependent on us and the content of our lives . . . NOT God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,168,349 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
So you do believe that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not have any effect. .
Actually, its just the other way around in scripture. Jesus' contention is that by Not confessing Jesus as Lord ... will have an effect that will produce "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "will be beaten with many blows" and have a "eternal punishment".

Why is his words not clear.....is it because they are not the truth?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,815,580 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
You said that ALL will confess regardless of location (heaven or hell). Are you saying that they will ALL be confess that Jesus is Lord?
DRob4JC, I just want to clarify for you that the scripture say that EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. You stated that they will so no matter where they are (Heaven or Hell). But the scriptures show that every tongue will be doing it to the Glory of God.

Now let me show you something straight from God's word:

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

You see that "Holy Ghost" part? That means that anyone that can confess that Jesus is Lord can only do so if they have the Holy Spirit.

So in light of that scripture, do you still believe that their could be people in "Hell" that shall be confessing that Jesus is Lord? Can someone who has the Holy Spirit be in the mainstream concept of "Hell"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top