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Old 07-14-2010, 02:36 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Then you need to not use this as a explaination because the same can and is more applicable about UR...."a intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage."

The context is scripture. Scripture tells me that God so loved the world.

So what part of the world then does God love, all of it, or some of it?


Your post only makes the case that God does not have any desire to save everyone. Some believe that, sure, people can believe lots of things.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:38 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,837,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Actually, its just the other way around in scripture. Jesus' contention is that by Not confessing Jesus as Lord ... will have an effect that will produce "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "will be beaten with many blows" and have a "eternal punishment".

Why is his words not clear.....is it because they are not the truth?


So you are saying scripture contradicts itself.

What then is the effect of confessing JESUS AS LORD?
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:52 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,916 times
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
No that's calvinism...which I didn't say. That is the presupposition.....the incorrect usage of the word "all" to sustain the validity of UR

2. There is no denial.
Good. "God's wrath remains on him" not "God's love"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Are you referring to a literal hell when you quote that? If so, how can a fireball "remain" on someone if it's not already there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Don't understand the 2nd question....

The first is yes. There is a literal hell for a literal devil and his angels.
Sorry I wasn't clear. You quoted "God's wrath remains on him."

So if wrath=lake of fire, and someone is not walking around with a fireball on him right now, how can it remain? Does that make sense?

Bob's hat remains on him. If his hat is not on him now, how does that make sense?

God's lake of fire remains on him. If God's lake of fire is not on him now, how does that make sense?

In other words, wrath can't mean lake of fire.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:58 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 770,806 times
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phazelwood, kat, bright hope, first born, the rest, God bless you.

I know others/lurkers are learning from your posts. I've seen in this thread alone a few slam dunk posts on your part but it's falling on deaf ears with the ET'ers your debating here.

But others are learning so good job.

I know what this really means now- "Let those who have ears listen"
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,853 times
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ALL OF THIS SPEAKS OF THE TRUE OBEDIENT BELIEVING CHRISTIAN, WHO IS EITHER ALIVE AND LIVING IN HIS WILL...OR HAS DIED AND WAITING TO BE RAISED UNTO HIM IN HIS PRESENCE...IT IS NOT!...I REPEAT NOT! SPEAKING TO ANYONE WHO IS LIVING IN THEIR SIN...OR WHO DIES IN THEIR SIN! THOSE WHO LIVE OR DIE IN THIER SIN...ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD! PERIOD!

Romans 14:11"...for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Philippians 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.


14:9 (For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived. The life of the Christian is a new life that springs out of Christ's death; we die with him; we rise with him...

Romans 6:4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
That he might be Lord of the dead and living. Hence, since our life comes from him, and springs from his death and resurrection, these make him our Lord, whether we be living or dead.

He is Lord of those that are living, to rule them; of those that are dead, to revive them, and raise them up.

Let every man search his own heart and life.

We should begin to lead a new life, as though we were already in heaven.

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,458 posts, read 15,436,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
So you do believe that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not have any effect. The passage that states that this will happen does not dictate that it is of no use, so if Confessing Jesus as Lord matters, then it will matter anywhere it is done. If that means hell is a place that can be escaped, then so be it.
I use belief instead of confess since 1 Cor. 12:3 says you won't truly confess unless you have the Spirit - and you don't get the Spirit unless you first believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Then when ALL believe in Christ, that will be the result.
All will eventually believe in the end - some will be in heaven - some will not. You do not get into heaven without the Holy Spirit - and the Spirit is received when we believe. This offer is for those alive on earth until the rapture occurs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Regaurdless of that or your disagreement, if Jesus paid for the sins of all, trying to make some case that one soul and only one soul saved means Christ is some sort of effective saviour is not really a good avenue to take because the premise is completely unscriptural in the first place.
It is completely scriptural. Who lives after this life without the cross? The sin debt would be be unpaid - and nobody on their own can pay it.

This is really your issue in that anything less than 100% salvation is a failure in your opinion. And I suppose one saved life doesn't mean much to you.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,458 posts, read 15,436,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
You said that ALL will confess regardless of location (heaven or hell). Are you saying that they will ALL be confess that Jesus is Lord?
Phil. 2:9-11 - For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,815,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Phil. 2:9-11 - For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
DRob4JC, will those that go to hell be cursing God then?
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,815,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Phil. 2:9-11 - For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,850,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I don't know where you got that. That's not what I believe, and as long as I've been on the forum I've not once read a UR post that says someone has to get "good enough," and I've never even seen someone speculate how long it takes for someone to reap what they sow, although maybe someone did.

You need to understand that "UR" is not a denomination. It is a belief that God will reconcile all to himself. The main common thread is that God WILL NOT torture most of humanity, and that Christ is the Savior of the world and will not fail. Face it - not one single person living today can tell you what happens in the afterlife. UR believers can tell you what DOESN'T happen. God does not set people on fire. That is 180 degrees against his nature. IMO, anyone who believes God will torture people do not yet fully know the true and living God.

I understand what you are saying, and (gasp!) I basically agree with your description of God's nature: He is love, and would not do that to people. (IE: "torture" people forever)

But...it is my understanding that God doesn't actually (actively) send anyone to hell, or actually (actively) torture people in hell....He doesn't have to. He doesn't have to do anything at all to see that happen...

Why not? Because....by a person dis-associating him/her-self from God (not accepting Christ), they are "strictly on their own" after death of their body. God's angels will not be there to "whisk them away". Why not? Because their names are not written in the Lamb's book of life, that's why. They refused to have anything to do with God while alive, so He basically says "Ok...you've made your choice"...
IE: God is a gentleman, and won't force Himself on anyone...that it's our/your choice. You think you can "go it alone" and don't need any help? Well...ok...goferit then. (and good luck...because you'll need it)

So then what...seeing that God doesn't send His angels to "pick them up", after death? So then....upon dying, these people instantly become easy prey to evil spirits...they are easy victims. (since they don't have the protection of God, or His angels). Where do they end up? Hell...of course. So did God cast them into hell? Nope...He did not. Is God torturing them? No, He's not...He doesn't have to...the devil and his evil legions take care of that.
But, sadly, invariably, God gets the blame for it...

Anyway, that's basically my understanding. The above just "IMO"...I don't claim it as hard and fast "gospel truth", and I'm not trying to teach it as such...it's just what I believe...

Bud
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