Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:35 PM
 
45,315 posts, read 26,834,676 times
Reputation: 23681

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
UR ENFORCES the purpose of the cross....

Let me ask you... what effect does acceptance of Christ have on the number of people affected by the cross...

IOW - By not believing in Christ have I changed the number of people saved by the cross? And how is that possible... isn't the number set in stone...

UR states that ALL men were affected by the work on the cross...

YOU state that some men were affected by the work on the cross and that number can increase or decrease without any actual change to the event itself. So the cross essentially doesn't work for some but CAN if they do something.... Doesn't make any sense to me. Either the cross applies to all or for some there is no hope anyway as they were not included in the original act on the cross.
The cross does affect ALL because it pays the sin debt for all.

Therefore, there is no cost on our behalf for our justification - we only need to believe in Christ to be born again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,593,512 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Do you even realize what you are saying?
Look at the context of the reply. He is answering an assertion that UR belief negates the purpose of the cross. In that context - the reply states that if the assertion is true then ET negates it even more.

Your welcome Mr. Hazelwood.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:40 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Do you even realize what you are saying?

If the cross saves one person, it is worth the price - because without the cross, none are saved.

AND

If there is no cross & resurrection, then believing in Him is useless - see 1 Cor. 15.

I know exactly what I am saying.


You say

Quote:
"if the cross saves one person, it is worth the price, because without the cross none are saved"

That is a nice cliche but it is meaningless to me since scripture tells me that Christ died FOR ALL and ALL will confess JESUS as LORD.


Do you think Confessing Jesus as LORD is pointless and has no positive effect on the one CONFESSING?


Secondly, you need to realize, if you haven't, of course you may agree with the person I replied to, that this person doesn;t believe JESUS dies for ALL. He ONLY died for those who already believe according to him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:41 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Look at the context of the reply. He is answering an assertion that UR belief negates the purpose of the cross. In that context - the reply states that if the assertion is true then ET negates it even more.

Your welcome Mr. Hazelwood.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,432,209 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I know exactly what I am saying.

Secondly, you need to realize, if you haven't, of course you may agree with the person I replied to, that this person doesn;t believe JESUS dies for ALL. He ONLY died for those who already believe according to him.
No that's calvinism...which I didn't say. That is the presupposition.....the incorrect usage of the word "all" to sustain the validity of UR

2. There is no denial.
Good. "God's wrath remains on him" not "God's love"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,860,296 times
Reputation: 2022
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple millenia) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:01 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 2,102,328 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No that's calvinism...which I didn't say. That is the presupposition.....the incorrect usage of the word "all" to sustain the validity of UR

2. There is no denial.
Good. "God's wrath remains on him" not "God's love"
Are you referring to a literal hell when you quote that? If so, how can a fireball "remain" on someone if it's not already there?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,475,192 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
The cross does affect ALL because it pays the sin debt for all.

Therefore, there is no cost on our behalf for our justification - we only need to believe in Christ to be born again.
But you are saying that those who reject Christianity are NOT affected by the cross so how does it affect all if not all are affected??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:04 PM
 
45,315 posts, read 26,834,676 times
Reputation: 23681
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Look at the context of the reply. He is answering an assertion that UR belief negates the purpose of the cross. In that context - the reply states that if the assertion is true then ET negates it even more.

Your welcome Mr. Hazelwood.
OK - then I don't agree with either assertion or the reply.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 02:04 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No that's calvinism...which I didn't say. That is the presupposition.....the incorrect usage of the word "all" to sustain the validity of UR

2. There is no denial.
Good. "God's wrath remains on him" not "God's love"

Separation of Gods attributes from his nature is not scriptural.

Gods Wrath is through his inherant nature which is LOVE,

GOD is LOVE

Gods wrath remained on me until I believed, no there is no denial of that.

That WRATH remained upon me because the purpose of LOVE was to draw me to God. Wrath that does not do that is not Godly but can be seen in humans around the world.



You assert that ALL is incorrectly used, but there is no scriptural exclusions for that passage. There are certainly cases where ALL is not talking about "MANKIND" and those uses of ALL DEFINES the particular group it is intended to point out.

MANKIND in 1 Timothy 2:4 has no scriptural context to only mean "some"


Only an intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage. That context is not in scripture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top