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Old 07-14-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,473,424 times
Reputation: 1737

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple centuries) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
I don't believe (as a URer) that there is any punishment after death... some take the lake of fire to be punishment... I don't . Gold is worth MORE when it is refined and feels nothing during the process. I personally believe that if the flesh is gone there is nothing to punish.

But that may just be me.

Who knows how long anything after life lasts? I mean if I had knowledge of that I'd be rich... wouldn't I..

Fact is we can't say anything for sure about any afterlife... so it is not that it is a fact of UR but a supposition of some who believe in UR.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:09 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 2,101,845 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple centuries) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
I don't know where you got that. That's not what I believe, and as long as I've been on the forum I've not once read a UR post that says someone has to get "good enough," and I've never even seen someone speculate how long it takes for someone to reap what they sow, although maybe someone did.

You need to understand that "UR" is not a denomination. It is a belief that God will reconcile all to himself. The main common thread is that God WILL NOT torture most of humanity, and that Christ is the Savior of the world and will not fail. Face it - not one single person living today can tell you what happens in the afterlife. UR believers can tell you what DOESN'T happen. God does not set people on fire. That is 180 degrees against his nature. IMO, anyone who believes God will torture people do not yet fully know the true and living God.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:11 PM
 
45,314 posts, read 26,823,113 times
Reputation: 23676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That is a nice cliche but it is meaningless to me since scripture tells me that Christ died FOR ALL and ALL will confess JESUS as LORD.
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Do you think Confessing Jesus as LORD is pointless and has no positive effect on the one CONFESSING?
Believing in Christ allows a person to be born into the family of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Secondly, you need to realize, if you haven't, of course you may agree with the person I replied to, that this person doesn;t believe JESUS dies for ALL. He ONLY died for those who already believe according to him.
Just because I agree in one area does not mean we are 100% in agreement. I'm sure if someone said Mohammed is the Messiah that you and I would agree that's not true - even though we disagree here.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,429,748 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Are you referring to a literal hell when you quote that? If so, how can a fireball "remain" on someone if it's not already there?
Don't understand the 2nd question....

The first is yes. There is a literal hell for a literal devil and his angels.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,992,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.
You said that ALL will confess regardless of location (heaven or hell). Are you saying that they will ALL be confess that Jesus is Lord?
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:20 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,910,860 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Did Christ die for all? Yes. Will all be delivered from God's wrath? No. Will all eventually confess? Yes - regardless of location in heaven or hell.

So you do believe that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not have any effect. The passage that states that this will happen does not dictate that it is of no use, so if Confessing Jesus as Lord matters, then it will matter anywhere it is done. If that means hell is a place that can be escaped, then so be it.



Quote:

Believing in Christ allows a person to be born into the family of God.
Then when ALL believe in Christ, that will be the result.


Quote:

Just because I agree in one area does not mean we are 100% in agreement. I'm sure if someone said Mohammed is the Messiah that you and I would agree that's not true - even though we disagree here
I made no assertion that would cause us to be in agreement, I was pointing out why I said what I said.

Regaurdless of that or your disagreement, if Jesus paid for the sins of all, trying to make some case that one soul and only one soul saved means Christ is some sort of effective saviour is not really a good avenue to take because the premise is completely unscriptural in the first place.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,429,748 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post


You assert that ALL is incorrectly used, but there is no scriptural exclusions for that passage.
MANKIND in 1 Timothy 2:4 has no scriptural context to only mean "some"

Yes there is...for 1 Timothy 2:4

Only an intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage. That context is not in scripture.

Then you need to not use this as a explaination because the same can and is more applicable about UR...."a intepretation by a man invented set of guidlines to make ALL into a certain context does that for that passage."
answers in blue
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:26 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,713,126 times
Reputation: 7791
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
One big problem I have with "UR" is the idea that those who refuse Christ (and even many of us who DO accept Him) will then have to undergo a long period of "purification" in hell, that will likely last for thousands of years, or even eons (multiple millenia) of time, before they are finally "good enough" to go to heaven.
IE: "It's not forever, it's only 10,000 years...etc..."

Question: is God's power so weak that His purifying fire takes that agonizingly long to remove the sin nature? Why can't He take away our inclination to sin in just a blink of an eye, or a heartbeat, and thereby leave all the misery behind us quickly? I mean, He's all-powerful, right?


Bud
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't believe (as a URer) that there is any punishment after death... some take the lake of fire to be punishment... I don't . Gold is worth MORE when it is refined and feels nothing during the process. I personally believe that if the flesh is gone there is nothing to punish.

But that may just be me.

Who knows how long anything after life lasts? I mean if I had knowledge of that I'd be rich... wouldn't I..

Fact is we can't say anything for sure about any afterlife... so it is not that it is a fact of UR but a supposition of some who believe in UR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I don't know where you got that. That's not what I believe, and as long as I've been on the forum I've not once read a UR post that says someone has to get "good enough," and I've never even seen someone speculate how long it takes for someone to reap what they sow, although maybe someone did.

You need to understand that "UR" is not a denomination. It is a belief that God will reconcile all to himself. The main common thread is that God WILL NOT torture most of humanity, and that Christ is the Savior of the world and will not fail. Face it - not one single person living today can tell you what happens in the afterlife. UR believers can tell you what DOESN'T happen. God does not set people on fire. That is 180 degrees against his nature. IMO, anyone who believes God will torture people do not yet fully know the true and living God.
There is NO PUNISHMENT by GOD for ANYTHING . . . but once the light of God's truth is cast upon our life . . . we will be fully aware of the import and experience the consequences of EVERY MOMENT of our life. WE would suffer such remorse and regret for those things we have not already repented of in this life . . . that it will be more than sufficient suffering to wish to avoid it. Its duration and content will be solely dependent on us and the content of our lives . . . NOT God.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,429,748 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
So you do believe that Confessing Jesus as Lord may not have any effect. .
Actually, its just the other way around in scripture. Jesus' contention is that by Not confessing Jesus as Lord ... will have an effect that will produce "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "will be beaten with many blows" and have a "eternal punishment".

Why is his words not clear.....is it because they are not the truth?
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 6,992,473 times
Reputation: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
You said that ALL will confess regardless of location (heaven or hell). Are you saying that they will ALL be confess that Jesus is Lord?
DRob4JC, I just want to clarify for you that the scripture say that EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. You stated that they will so no matter where they are (Heaven or Hell). But the scriptures show that every tongue will be doing it to the Glory of God.

Now let me show you something straight from God's word:

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

You see that "Holy Ghost" part? That means that anyone that can confess that Jesus is Lord can only do so if they have the Holy Spirit.

So in light of that scripture, do you still believe that their could be people in "Hell" that shall be confessing that Jesus is Lord? Can someone who has the Holy Spirit be in the mainstream concept of "Hell"?
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