U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-14-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,163,619 times
Reputation: 1308

Advertisements

The other main error of UR is.........

1. The misuse \ application of the word "all" in 1 Timothy 2:4 (and other such passages)

2. Denial of God's will in subjective verses John 3:36, Romans 12:19 (and other such passages)

3. Minimizes \ denies the ramifications of false religions \ refusing to believe the truth on earth as it relates to life beyond death 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (and other such passages)

4. It supercedes God's will to have Jesus' authority be the final say as to damning unbelievers and announce who are the blessed Matthew 25:34, 40-42 (and other such passages)


5. Rejects the urgency of the call to come to faith ... "now is the time" John 4:23 John 5:25, 2 Corinthians 6:2

**
Bible passages references:

1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[a]says the Lord
[a]Deut. 32:35

2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved

Matthew 25:34, 40-42
Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father......

...The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

John 5:25
I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For he says,
"In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you." [a] I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
[a]Isaiah 49:8

Last edited by twin.spin; 07-14-2010 at 11:41 AM.. Reason: clarity \ bible verses added
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2010, 10:54 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,186 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The other main error of UR is.........1. The misuse \ application of the word "all" in 1 Timothy 2:4 (and other such passages)

2. Denial of God's will in subjective verses John 3:26, Romans 12:19 (and other such passages)

3. Minimizes \ denies the ramifications of earthly unbelieve \false religions \ refusing to believe the truth as it relates to life beyond death 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (and other such passages)

4. It supercedes God's will to have Jesus' authority be the final say as to damning unbelievers and announce who are the blessed Matthew 25:40-42 (and other such passages)

45. Rejects the urgency of the call to come to faith ... "now is the time" John 4:23 John 5:25, 2 Corinthians 6:2

1. No, this is just a case of shifting the argument when it can be proven that the meaning of the word translated to "will" "Wish" "desire" actually has the context of a determination by God. Good try though.

2. There is no denial. it is a matter of seeing those verses through Gods nature which is LOVE. We all reap what we sow because it is of LOVE that we do so. Who here has reaped what they have sown and was changed for the better by it? Everyone has.

3. While many arguments appear that way, it is contradicted by the very fact that anyone who is a universalist shares their faith hoping someone comes to know this NOW in this life.

4. That is another subject of context, Jesus stated that the Father was greater than he, also, Jesus was dispatched to be Saviour of the world so in that context we simply interpret scripture in a belief that he will not fail in that mission. You context is based on the presupposition that "All are not saved" and Jesus has nothing to do with your bias in that regaurd

5. As I said before, the urgency is in a different light, but it is a lie to say that universalists are telling people about Jeuss now only to not care that they believe now. So while you may ignorantly believe a lie up to this point, you have been shown the lie so stop spreading the lie and prove you believe your own doctrine which says liars will not enter the kingdom for eternity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,417,556 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The other main error of UR is.........

1. The misuse \ application of the word "all" in 1 Timothy 2:4 (and other such passages)

2. Denial of God's will in subjective verses John 3:26, Romans 12:19 (and other such passages)

3. Minimizes \ denies the ramifications of false religions \ refusing to believe the truth on earth as it relates to life beyond death 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (and other such passages)

4. It supercedes God's will to have Jesus' authority be the final say as to damning unbelievers and announce who are the blessed Matthew 25:40-42 (and other such passages)

5. Rejects the urgency of the call to come to faith ... "now is the time" John 4:23 John 5:25, 2 Corinthians 6:2
Amen!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,432,221 times
Reputation: 420
UR denies the purpose of the cross, it gives man the power to overcome his sins in his life through a symbolic post mortem judgement, for those very sins that Christ suffered for on the first place for those who put their faith in Him.

Good post Twin!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:09 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,836,186 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR denies the purpose of the cross, it gives man the power to overcome his sins in his life through a symbolic post mortem judgement, for those very sins that Christ suffered for on the first place for those who put their faith in Him.

Good post Twin!

Christ suffering is even more meaningless if it only paved the way for those who were going to already believe in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:24 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,163,619 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
1. No, this is just a case of shifting the argument when it can be proven that the meaning of the word translated to "will" "Wish" "desire" actually has the context of a determination by God. Good try though.

Actually it is. "Good try though"
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

2. There is no denial.
Good. "God's wrath remains on him" not "God's love"
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

3. While many arguments appear that way,
Maybe not for you, but to many others are. Could it be because the majority appear that way is probably because they are that way?
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

4. That is another subject of context, ....we simply interpret scripture in a belief that he will not fail in that mission. You context is based on the presupposition that "All are not saved" and Jesus has nothing to do with your bias in that regaurd
Interesting......who is the "King" that damns those on his left and tells on his right to "Come, those who are blessed" (which by the way is an invitation...nobody enters heaven by one self)
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

5. As I said before, the urgency is in a different light, but it is a lie to say that universalists are telling people about Jeuss now only to not care that they believe now. So while you may ignorantly believe a lie up to this point, you have been shown the lie so stop spreading the lie and prove you believe your own doctrine which says liars will not enter the kingdom for eternity

Sorry...don't understand (the italic in your answer) but that doesn't need replying to.
Anyone who denies Jesus as the Christ, believes in anything other than Jesus who he claimed to be, doesn't have faith when he appears before God; this person who stands in front of the Judge is attempting to enter heaven based on his own merits. That person will be called a "liar" by God.

If anything promotes anyone\doctrine\path as described above...God will not allow to enter the kingdom for eternity.

When your time for appearing before the judge occurs, the time for pleading your case is past.
Answers in blue

Thanks for the exchange.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,666,149 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR denies the purpose of the cross, it gives man the power to overcome his sins in his life through a symbolic post mortem judgement, for those very sins that Christ suffered for on the first place for those who put their faith in Him.

Good post Twin!
UR ENFORCES the purpose of the cross....

Let me ask you... what effect does acceptance of Christ have on the number of people affected by the cross...

IOW - By not believing in Christ have I changed the number of people saved by the cross? And how is that possible... isn't the number set in stone...

UR states that ALL men were affected by the work on the cross...

YOU state that some men were affected by the work on the cross and that number can increase or decrease without any actual change to the event itself. So the cross essentially doesn't work for some but CAN if they do something.... Doesn't make any sense to me. Either the cross applies to all or for some there is no hope anyway as they were not included in the original act on the cross.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 12:51 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,163,619 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR denies the purpose of the cross, it gives man the power to overcome his sins in his life through a symbolic post mortem judgement, for those very sins that Christ suffered for on the first place for those who put their faith in Him.

Good post Twin!
Thanks sciomatics.

You are correct. It really sends the incorrect message that to believe the true message of salvation isn't necessary on this earth....that it isn't subjective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,436 posts, read 15,421,970 times
Reputation: 11365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Christ suffering is even more meaningless if it only paved the way for those who were going to already believe in the first place.
Do you even realize what you are saying?

If the cross saves one person, it is worth the price - because without the cross, none are saved.

AND

If there is no cross & resurrection, then believing in Him is useless - see 1 Cor. 15.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2010, 01:30 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,770,370 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Do you even realize what you are saying?

If the cross saves one person, it is worth the price
Do you have scripture to back that up?

Really think about it. Jesus comes to this earth, carries out his ministry, suffers and is put to death. He is buried and is risen from the dead. Several thousand years later, one person is saved and everyone else ever created by God is set on fire forever. Is it really worth the price? Your answer might be, "Yes. If that one person is DRob4JC." It's a selfish, ridiculous saying that's not biblical. Christ is victorious like the bible says, and victory is not Xzillion lost and 1 saved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top