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Old 07-15-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is nothing remotely scriptual to this .

Jesus obtained and accomplished it by himself without our help

14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Hebrews 2.

It says He freed those who all their lives were held in slavery by fear of death .

Sciotamick Who are the those the Hebrew writer is referring to ? All ? , or just christians ?
Back up a few verses and read 10-11.

And children is not the same for ALL humans. Back to the point of the lost sheep in Matthew.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Back up a few verses and read 10-11.

And children is not the same for ALL humans. Back to the point of the lost sheep in Matthew.
and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Hebrews 2 verse 15


So HotinAZ what you are saying is the only people who were held in slavery by fear of death are christians, (those you consider children of God)? unbelievers aren't ? .

I find that pretty amazing to be honest . What wouldn't suprise is that many fundamental christians are still in fear of death , because to listen to many of the comments on here , you would think salvation is about escaping the eternal torment they believe in.

It's not a backing up that is required but a transformation of the renewing of the mind .

I actually thought i was reading a post by Beloved57 , when i read your reply to me , so you are a Calvanist .

Last edited by pcamps; 07-15-2010 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:06 PM
 
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The victory in Christ is the defeat of death. All death. Death itself (you can think of it as the mythical grim-reaper if you want, representing all death, all dying) is destroyed. Therefore no one is dead, and no one will ever die again.

Destroy death, and what do you have? LIFE! RESURRECTION. That is what it is all about.

But you cannot say death is defeated if death still reigns in some. Death is not destroyed if there are still dead people. Complete victory over death means that all are made alive. Which is exactly what scripture says! Good news!
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
The God I serve can both create, and destroy. He said it. He may not be a god in your eyes, but it IS the God of the Word, to whom also Jesus was sent BY.
That capability is assumed in the title God, Hot. It isn't a question of COULD God . . . it is a question of WOULD God and WHY? There is no real intelligent thought given to this aspect of God using the absurd excuse that we are not capable of knowing what God would do or why! Yet to believe and retain the primitive interpretations of God's motives is worse than not knowing . . . it is perpetuating and elevating ignorance to the level of worship. This can only continue if we close our selves off from what we know in our hearts cannot be GOOD or GODLY! Don't do that in support of some mythical belief in the inerrancy of the interpretations and recordings of primitives, Hot.
Quote:
I know your intentions are good, but you have discounted the entire OT calling them barbarians. It is the OT which led to Christ, and this is how we KNOW the REAL Christ Jesus, our Lord and King. And yes, Yahweh is His Father. It was His Spirit that gave the revelations to the prophets of old.
NOT DISCOUNTED . . . re-interpreted through the mind of Christ using Jesus' motives NOT the ones ascribed to Jehovah by ignorant primitives. I acknowledge the value of the OT in telling us of Jesus and validating His credentials as the Son of God. I'm just too intelligent to accept the absurd descriptions of our God and His motivations produced by those primitive barbarians (and they were barbarians).
Quote:
You call this biblians instead of Christians. But it is the Bible where the Bread is found. It is His Word.
No . . . Jesus is the Living Word of God . . . not the letters "written in ink." They have to be read and interpreted spiritually with spiritual understanding through the mind of Christ with the aid of His Holy Spirit . . . not simple literal uneducated and rote reading using our natural minds. The natural man understands nothing spiritual.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: New England
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HotinAZ Jesus Himself said He came to save life and not destroy it , do you believe in a god that is comparable to Jeckyll and Hyde ?.

How about the Good God , Bad God concept , which i suppose is easily believed if you believe the three god theory
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:02 PM
 
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Default "Rejection at Nazareth"

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
HotinAZ Jesus Himself said He came to save life and not destroy it , do you believe in a god that is comparable to Jeckyll and Hyde ?.

How about the Good God , Bad God concept , which i suppose is easily believed if you believe the three god theory
Here's a passage worth discerning for this is the time when Jesus first quoted the Old Testament:

Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written. (Isaiah 49:8, 9; 61:1-2)

18 THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKEN HEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED,
19 TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

In his discourse, Jesus maintained that his day was the fulfillment of salvation of which he was sent to "heal the broken hearted and to set at liberty them that are bruised".

This is the true meaning of salvation!!!

Blessings...
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:24 PM
 
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Keep reading the verse in Isaiah that Jesus quoted.

To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,

Notice THAT the day of vengeance has not yet arrived. It is yet to be fulfilled.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Here's a passage worth discerning for this is the time when Jesus first quoted the Old Testament:

Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written. (Isaiah 49:8, 9; 61:1-2)

18 THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKEN HEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED,
19 TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

In his discourse, Jesus maintained that his day was the fulfillment of salvation of which he was sent to "heal the broken hearted and to set at liberty them that are bruised".

This is the true meaning of salvation!!!

Blessings...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Keep reading the verse in Isaiah that Jesus quoted.

To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,

Notice THAT the day of vengeance has not yet arrived. It is yet to be fulfilled.
Isaiah prophecied the future coming of the Messiah...of course, in his days...it was still in the future...but Jesus said in Luke 4:21 "This day is the scripture (Isaiah's prophecy) fulfilled in your ears". Your going to have to take your counter up with Jesus...HE said it!

Peace!
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
Isaiah prophecied the future coming of the Messiah...of course, in his days...it was still in the future...but Jesus said in Luke 4:21 "This day is the scripture (Isaiah's prophecy) fulfilled in your ears". Your going to have to take your counter up with Jesus...HE said it!

Peace!
He said it UNTIL He got to the part "And the day of vengeance of our God".
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
He said it UNTIL He got to the part "And the day of vengeance of our God".
HotinaZ...counter question...why did Jesus' reading stopped at verse 21 then closed the book as if it was sufficient in itself. If we must continue on with Isaiah's prophecy of vengeance...then the following verses would be aimed at those who negated his reading from verse 18-21. And here it is:

Luke 4:22-24 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum,, do also here in thy country.

24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

What they did not believe was his gracious words in verse 18 and that it was fulfilled in their hearing that day!

btw - I'm not pushing my view of this passage unto others...it is mine for my discernment...

Peace!
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