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Old 07-16-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,497,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Then so be it Mystic. Like I have said REPEATEDLY. I hope UR is true. If so, then God can punish me for speaking out against it. Either way, I would still love Him with ALL of my being.

Sadly, you cannot say the same thing if the doctrine I hold to is truth, can you. You would rather He just kill you, right?

And I do not feel I am 'special', so please quit trying to generalize me. I am the worst of sinners according to my past. So to be given the grace needed for sanctification was the greatest of blessings for me personally.

Special verses are what you UR folk do. Read the whole chapter, and book to see if your doctrines line up with the WHOLE counsel of God. Not cherry picked verses pulled out of context to suit a desire based upon frivolous emotions, not understanding the complete will or judgment of our Creator.

To compare God to humans is no different than the pagan gods of old, from egypt to greece. My God is above all that nonsense. If needed, He could give you over to Satan, TONITE, to sift through. Would that be something a loving human would do? God would though, so how does that stack up with your reason and logic concerning the Creator of all?
One of many reasons why I am UR is beacause I believe God is nothing like the pagan gods and goddesses who were prone to violent emotional chaotic outbursts.

What many Christians do not seem to understand is WHY God punishes. Why does He create? If He is more loving than those pagan thunderbolt throwing gods what does this mean? Why did he call his "enemies" loved?
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:37 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,477,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
One of many reasons why I am UR is beacause I believe God is nothing like the pagan gods and goddesses who were prone to violent emotional chaotic outbursts.

What many Christians do not seem to understand is WHY God punishes. Why does He create? If He is more loving than those pagan thunderbolt throwing gods what does this mean? Why did he call his "enemies" loved?
Is a foe a enemy? Or just one that opposes what you stand for?

Try getting into that Greek word a bit.

The whole world beastial system is a foe for Christians, and as such we are called to turn the other cheek, not bowing or submitting to them.

Does this make men our enemies? No, they are foes. A foe just stands against what YOU stand for.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:42 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Speaking of wages.. I think you might be confused.

See... Paul explains: For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Wages are payment for work. Sin is a master of his servant and pays wages. So your payment for working for sin is death.

But eternal life has nothing to do with wages.. it is a gift.

Paul also states: Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So the wages of sin is death... but then we see that:
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.

And - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

So Paul taught that although the wages of sin are death.. there is no wages with God.. it is a pure gift of justification to the wicked. Undeserved love and mercy..

The gift is freely given.

Once you understand the correlation between the wages of sin and the gift of God.. you will, perhaps, understand where URers are coming from.
I can't rep you so I have to do it this way. That is a wonderful post! Thank you!
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:46 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Special verses are what you UR folk do. Read the whole chapter, and book to see if your doctrines line up with the WHOLE counsel of God. Not cherry picked verses pulled out of context to suit a desire based upon frivolous emotions, not understanding the complete will or judgment of our Creator.

It seems to me that ET's and UR's are BOTH guilty of that. Everyone is reading the same Book aren't they?
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,497,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Is a foe a enemy? Or just one that opposes what you stand for?

Try getting into that Greek word a bit.

The whole world beastial system is a foe for Christians, and as such we are called to turn the other cheek, not bowing or submitting to them.

Does this make men our enemies? No, they are foes. A foe just stands against what YOU stand for.


I really don't think Jesus cried, "Father, forgive them," just so he could roast, toast, or annihilate his enemies. We turn the other cheek because that is how the other-worldly kingdom is run. The elect are here to practice these actions in a kindgdom with many foes, yes. But, why?

The meek inherit the earth. Become like children. Study war no more.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:50 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,582,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I really don't think Jesus cried, "Father, forgive them," just so he could roast, toast, or annhilate his enemies. We turn the other cheek because that is how the other-worldly kingdom is run. The elect are here to practice these actions in a kindgdom with many foes, yes. But, why?

The meek inherit the earth. Become like children. Study war no more.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,497,011 times
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Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
It seems to me that ET's and UR's are BOTH guilty of that. Everyone is reading the same Book aren't they?
All of Christendom does this. The Calvinist leaves out chunks of the Bible, or twists and bends scripture so badly I'm surprised they don't get terrible strains in their backs. The Arminians pretty much do the same thing. I have found that UR has very nicely melded both together, not leaving any scripture out. The elect have a purpose, and that is not to sit around on fluffy clouds for eternity, but to bring in the harvest. In the end, Christ will end his reign and give the entire universe over to his Father.

It's really not too hard to understand, in my humble opinion.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:15 PM
 
697 posts, read 915,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
All of Christendom does this. The Calvinist leaves out chunks of the Bible, or twists and bends scripture so badly I'm surprised they don't get terrible strains in their backs. The Arminians pretty much do the same thing. I have found that UR has very nicely melded both together, not leaving any scripture out. The elect have a purpose, and that is not to sit around on fluffy clouds for eternity, but to bring in the harvest. In the end, Christ will end his reign and give the entire universe over to his Father.

It's really not too hard to understand, in my humble opinion.
I think it is an argument of last resort, to complain that your opponent is leaving something out or cherry picking. But it is one that is used quite often it seems.
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:54 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,477,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
It seems to me that ET's and UR's are BOTH guilty of that. Everyone is reading the same Book aren't they?
I am not disagreeing with this at all. Both camps do this. Good thing I do not subscribe to either camp.

And yes, they are reading from the same book. But they are not seeing the same thing. Blindness has happened in part, otherwise everyone wuld be on the same page.
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:57 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,477,399 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I really don't think Jesus cried, "Father, forgive them," just so he could roast, toast, or annihilate his enemies. We turn the other cheek because that is how the other-worldly kingdom is run. The elect are here to practice these actions in a kindgdom with many foes, yes. But, why?

The meek inherit the earth. Become like children. Study war no more.
The forgiveness Jesus prayed for was for killing Him. They did it out of not knowing what they were doing.

It is why Jesus said:

"Father, forgive them for they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO".

Did this apply to everything they did, or this one act they committed against Him? I believe the second.
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