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Old 07-18-2010, 12:44 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,390,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Hmmm... Atheist? I got it from here:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
I guess we're both gonna be called Atheist's tonight...LOL Here is a good one from Finn to me from another thread:

"You keep presenting the old & naive atheist argument that loving God would not send anyone to hell. I hear is from atheists and universalists every day."

LOL
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Old 07-18-2010, 06:42 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Above in blue: HotinAZ. Above in green, black, and purple: Herefornow. Obviously. I just needed to put something in the reply box.
This made it hard to respond point by point, but those verses you posted seemed interesting. I did a little take, molding your highlighted parts into 1 verse.

Like:

Jesus IS the Savior of ALL men, as He was a ransom paid in full, to reconcile ALL things to Himself, whether on earth, or heaven. ALL nations will come and worship from ALL over the world, because by grace He tasted death for EVERYONE. He has brought salvation to ALL men, and ALL men will bow and give Him praise confessing Jesus as Lord, to the GLory of the Father.


Does this sound like UR to you? Or does it sound like the invitation is open to all mankind, thereby not excluding ANYONE to be able to come to the Savior and be saved?

You really think this means EVERYONE is saved?

Many are invited, few actually respond to the invitation. And it is their choice.
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:23 AM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Then so be it Mystic. Like I have said REPEATEDLY. I hope UR is true. If so, then God can punish me for speaking out against it. Either way, I would still love Him with ALL of my being.

Sadly, you cannot say the same thing if the doctrine I hold to is truth, can you. You would rather He just kill you, right?
You forget, Hot . . . I am not relying solely on the words "written in ink" by ignorant primitives under the veil of ignorance. I experience the love and acceptance of God directly. I did not ask for it, did not expect it, and was completely flabbergasted when it first occurred. Nevertheless . . . it is an undeniable and unmistakable reality for me that changes what you keep referring to as the CONTEXT of the scriptures. There is no more important context than the TRUE NATURE of God. There is no hint in the God I encounter in deep meditation of the primitive negative human emotions used to describe God in the OT. So I cannot be frightened by what I consider to be an impossibility.

Therefore, everything has to be re-interpreted in the light of the TRUE NATURE of God as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ. If we cannot conceive of that beautiful loving Jesus feeling, demanding or otherwise doing what Jehovah is supposed to have done . . . then it is FALSE! THAT is what is meant by using the "mind of Christ" and the Holy Spirit to remove the veil of ignorance over the OT to understand our loving God using what has been "written in our hearts."
Quote:
And I do not feel I am 'special', so please quit trying to generalize me. I am the worst of sinners according to my past. So to be given the grace needed for sanctification was the greatest of blessings for me personally.

Special verses are what you UR folk do. Read the whole chapter, and book to see if your doctrines line up with the WHOLE counsel of God. Not cherry picked verses pulled out of context to suit a desire based upon frivolous emotions, not understanding the complete will or judgment of our Creator.

To compare God to humans is no different than the pagan gods of old, from egypt to greece. My God is above all that nonsense. If needed, He could give you over to Satan, TONITE, to sift through. Would that be something a loving human would do? God would though, so how does that stack up with your reason and logic concerning the Creator of all?
It is untrue . . . Jesus would NEVER do any such thing, period. It is you who is using all the worst negative human weaknesses and assigning them to God. Lacking psychological knowledge . . . this is an understandable and very human error. But knowing what the true source of those negative human emotions are makes it impossible to consider our God to be such a psychological weakling!
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,668,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I guess we're both gonna be called Atheist's tonight...LOL Here is a good one from Finn to me from another thread:

"You keep presenting the old & naive atheist argument that loving God would not send anyone to hell. I hear is from atheists and universalists every day."

LOL
Sadly.. I'd rather be labeled a love-filled atheist than a torture-filled theist any day.... I think God would understand.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,668,211 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
This made it hard to respond point by point, but those verses you posted seemed interesting. I did a little take, molding your highlighted parts into 1 verse.

Like:

Jesus IS the Savior of ALL men, as He was a ransom paid in full, to reconcile ALL things to Himself, whether on earth, or heaven. ALL nations will come and worship from ALL over the world, because by grace He tasted death for EVERYONE. He has brought salvation to ALL men, and ALL men will bow and give Him praise confessing Jesus as Lord, to the GLory of the Father.


Does this sound like UR to you? Or does it sound like the invitation is open to all mankind, thereby not excluding ANYONE to be able to come to the Savior and be saved?

You really think this means EVERYONE is saved?

Many are invited, few actually respond to the invitation. And it is their choice.
LOL in that parable... none of the ones invited showed up. The ones not invited were the ones who shared in the feast.

So what are you trying to say?
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:30 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
LOL in that parable... none of the ones invited showed up. The ones not invited were the ones who shared in the feast.

So what are you trying to say?
Good Luck!
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,668,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Good Luck!
I'll need it!
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
This made it hard to respond point by point, but those verses you posted seemed interesting. I did a little take, molding your highlighted parts into 1 verse.

Like:

Jesus IS the Savior of ALL men, as He was a ransom paid in full, to reconcile ALL things to Himself, whether on earth, or heaven. ALL nations will come and worship from ALL over the world, because by grace He tasted death for EVERYONE. He has brought salvation to ALL men, and ALL men will bow and give Him praise confessing Jesus as Lord, to the GLory of the Father.


Does this sound like UR to you? Or does it sound like the invitation is open to all mankind, thereby not excluding ANYONE to be able to come to the Savior and be saved?

You really think this means EVERYONE is saved?

Many are invited, few actually respond to the invitation. And it is their choice.
You are saying few actually respond , i believe in Jesus , yet the reason i believe is because He opened my eyes , i didn't believe then He opened my eyes , it was the other way around.

I cannot utter that i am saved because i believe, i just cannot do it (God forbid) , i can only say "Thank you Lord for saving me"
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: in the woods
180 posts, read 229,084 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Hmmm... Atheist? I got it from here:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
I am confused, however, I apreciate your reponse to me. God did breathe life into man, and he became a living soul! If we are to take this for what it says, wouldn't it be consistent that man does indeed have a soul, and that soul, as many of the writers, as they faithfully recorded God's message, is either living - with God/Christ, or dead - without either? We must address that this act of God was done before his fall, and his fall, was a condemnation of death. Yes he did not die that day, and we must conclude, at least for me, that God specifically meant what was living, the breathe of God, is now....dead. Thanks again for the referrence to Genesis 2...a very deep and profound area of the Bible.
Forgive me if I didn't get back to you sooner.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:22 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,572,386 times
Reputation: 5149
Default "Spititual Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerimiahJohnson View Post
I am confused, however, I apreciate your reponse to me. God did breathe life into man, and he became a living soul! If we are to take this for what it says, wouldn't it be consistent that man does indeed have a soul, and that soul, as many of the writers, as they faithfully recorded God's message, is either living - with God/Christ, or dead - without either? We must address that this act of God was done before his fall, and his fall, was a condemnation of death. Yes he did not die that day, and we must conclude, at least for me, that God specifically meant what was living, the breathe of God, is now....dead. Thanks again for the referrence to Genesis 2...a very deep and profound area of the Bible.
Forgive me if I didn't get back to you sooner.
Thus in Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, "BECAUSE" thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

17 And unto Adam he said, "BECAUSE" thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of they life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

IMHO - the inference here is that, the moment Adam ate of the tree, he died spiritually...hence could no longer discern the spirit...be it of God or of evil...and became an easy prey/fodder for deception by the serpent. He became an animated being devoid of understanding/sensing spiritual things. (don't be throwing stones at me yet!)

However...Eve (meaning life) was taken out of a living man (not made of dust) and could eat of the tree of "Knowing good and evil"...nowhere in chapter 2 did God repeat the command of not to eat...and neither did he remind her the dreaded word "BECAUSE"...

Woman's intuition!!!

On the contrary...God said in verse 15, "And I will put an enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel". "The Virgin Birth of Christ" no mortal father could bring the prophesied "sinless" Messiah to fruition.

Fodder for spiritual thought... Now you can throw the first pebble...

Thank you father for hiding these things from the wise and revealing them unto "BABES"...(dodging and running)...........
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