When Christians Argue (scripture, sin, Holy Spirit, Bible)

[Phazelwood]

Not intending to be harsh, but it may come across that way. What is it about the OP that isn't argumentative? It intends to argue that a certain point of view is right.

I enjoy the exchanges in forums and have learned though them, it isn't as destrructive as some make it out to be. What is happening is that we get into the thinking of what we see before our eyes and not the seeds that get planted.

That's just my opinion, if someone feels they shouldn't argue, then don't, but it is productive in the long run for many of us, there is a poster in the forum who used to be in bondage to religion and now is not because people didn't keep silent.

I myself was freed from that bondage through forum arguments. I see others who are witness to this as well.

[shyspider]

Originally Posted by allen antrim

Sorry, I am going to continually cause trouble.

Then maybe you shouldn't be surprised if people increasingly don't pay attention to your posts...? Keep in mind, according to Romans 16, Christians are supposed to mark those who cause divisions and avoid those people.

I apologize to moderators if that sounds like a personal attack. It really isn't. It's just the only way I know how to say it.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by allen antrim

Sorry, I am going to continually cause trouble.

Now . . . there's a shocker!!

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Kimothy Ann C

When there is argument, (whether between Christians or other persons) it is usually self-pride rising to the surface. Christians can fall into the habit of being "legalistic", which is not good, as the central focus of Christ was to Love God and Love Our Fellowman. Too often Christians forget the purpose of the Holy Spirit, and with their ethusiasm, they feel that God needs some "help", therefore they overpush Christ on to others. This is where the Holy Spirit is suppose to step in. His job is to touch the heart of the unbeliever after the Christian has planted the seed.

All other Biblical issues are subject to interpretation, and should not be used as a wedge between other Believers. As Christians, we are suppose to represent Christ through our actions and words - and to be as Christlike as possible. By emulating Christ, we draw others toward ourselves, which bottom-line, draws those to Christ Jesus. Non-believers are then to be DRAWN toward Christ.

Too often the human-element interfers with passing along Christ's message. When we turn to Man and not to God for things, we will be disappointed and life will have no purpose. But we must understand that Mankind will always fail and fall short of being perfect like Christ. We must not bond ourselves to a specific (Preacher, Church, Ideal) of this world. To do so, is to subject ourselves to disappointment and disillusionment.

Christ and His Father are not of this world, and we Christians must not allow ourselves to be tied to the world. One of the differences between a Christian and secular man is that the Christian's heart is convicted by the Holy Spirit to know what is right and wrong, and to subject themselves to answer to God for their wrongs. Mannon only holds himself to man's laws and life experiences.

You were doing pretty good up until the point where you became judgmental of others who don't believe like you do...which unfortunately, happens alot with the religious as they segregate themselves from the rest of society as somehow better than everyone else. The only difference between Christians and secular society is you believe you follow a spirit to guide you...we follow our conscience to guide us. The only one I have to answer to when I do something wrong is myself....I reap what I sow....the same way you do. I was taught the difference between right and wrong by my parents, the same exact way you were taught...but without the fear of reprisals from the godman in the sky. We all learn from our mistakes (life experiences) and try to do better the next time...there is no godman in the sky waiting to pour down wrath on my head when I do the wrong thing...and we are all under man's laws if we want to live together peaceably in society.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Not intending to be harsh, but it may come across that way. What is it about the OP that isn't argumentative? It intends to argue that a certain point of view is right.

I enjoy the exchanges in forums and have learned though them, it isn't as destrructive as some make it out to be. What is happening is that we get into the thinking of what we see before our eyes and not the seeds that get planted.

That's just my opinion, if someone feels they shouldn't argue, then don't, but it is productive in the long run for many of us, there is a poster in the forum who used to be in bondage to religion and now is not because people didn't keep silent.

I myself was freed from that bondage through forum arguments. I see others who are witness to this as well.

Iron sharpens iron

[little elmer]

I guess the point I want to make is that God would be God whether we argued about Him or not. The Truth is the truth, though no one believed it - the sun will rise tomorrow even if we all went blind tonight.

The goal of our discussions should not be to win an argument, but that the words we speak would lift up those who read without our knowledge. We can be right, but in such a wrong spirit that the point is lost and sin has crept in - let your speech be always with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how to answer every man. (Col 4:6)

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by little elmer

I guess the point I want to make is that God would be God whether we argued about Him or not. The Truth is the truth, though no one believed it - the sun will rise tomorrow even if we all went blind tonight.

The goal of our discussions should not be to win an argument, but that the words we speak would lift up those who read without our knowledge. We can be right, but in such a wrong spirit that the point is lost and sin has crept in - let your speech be always with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how to answer every man. (Col 4:6)

LT I also agree with your point, like the old Petra song say

Sometimes it is better to be seen and not heard.

[Enow]

Originally Posted by little elmer

It depends on whether or not you really want to follow Him, who was despised and rejected yet He opened not His mouth.

This might be more of an appropriate application:

Matthew 10: 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Sometimes, standing up for the truth will cause division.

1 Corinthians 5: 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Our need for vindication is rooted somewhere outside the gates of the Kingdom.

Sometimes arguments are established when believers are going beyond sharing the truth or correction by driving the point home to the point that repeating it is like beating a dead horse, and yet we were not to strive with man in the first place.

Galatians 5: 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatains 6: 1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

1 Corinthians 3: 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Timothy 2:24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

There is a limit: Jesus Christ, Our Good Shepherd, will guide us as to when this applies.

Titus 3: 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 Thessalonians 3: 1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;..... 14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

For the assembly of believers:

Matthew 18: 10Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

So ignoring an error or a sin as a trespass in a believer's walk is the same thing as despising them in the assembly. It is by correcting one another in love in seeking their good in the Lord should be the motivation in these "divisive discussions", but we are to lean on Jesus to avoid the flesh of striving to win an argument when it is on Him to cause the increase.

Matthew 10: 12And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[little elmer]

Enow, I believe the scriptures you post are most relevent to the battle of natures within us. The nature of man is anti-Christ, and the cross is applied to us so that death can be used to empty us for His endwelling.

Calvary is the picture of what God thinks of the carnal nature.

[allen antrim]

Does everyone see how this works? The options are; 1. if you want to follow Him, the rejected one, you will not open your mouth or argue, therefore, 2. if you do argue or open your mouth, you are not following him (I guess that excludes both sides or everyone); you are not christian. That is pretty ironclad and actually is an argument against those who argue-its the same thing, just trying to be passed off as pious by the "silent" ones (in manta instances, silence is an argument). This rejected one told the governor that if his kingdom was of this world, his followers would fight. Well, within, this kingdom, it is its own world; of itself, and it is the business of this kingdom, within its own realm, to get at correct thought, as best it can, and evidently that takes argument not inane options. This, of course, this "let it all go by" wants to be implemented to push all kinds of junk through without any effort at legitimizing any of it theologically.