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Old 07-15-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,574,615 times
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Revelation 14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 14:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Psalm 139:7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Does anyone really think that hell and the lake of fire is somewhere outside the presence of God that He sees it not? As God's judgment is eternal, so His eyes are on them as His judgment are kept eternal. Does anyone really think hell and the lake of fire is a temporary residence?

Then explain why hell was not emptied upon Jesus' resurrection? Why are there bones still existing before His resurrection? In Jesus' parable, the rich man could hear Abraham and speak with him so Jesus preaching to those in Paradise means everyone in hell heard the Good News, but what?

Luke 16: 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The gulf is fixed. The judgment is eternal.

Now is the time of salvation.

The lost sheep are those that believe but went astray whethor their faith was overthrown or they were believers living the wild life as the prodigal son.

That is why judgment must fall on the House of God first to restore such a one to the path of righteousness foir His name's sake for all that the Father has given Him, he shall lose nothing.

John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The pre tribulational rapture event is when that judgment comes when those left behind are the foolish virgins that will finally have their lamps shining as the prodigal son will be returning because he is son for they have been bought with a price and sealed as His for believing in Him to be His sheep.

Romans 8: 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So to be the sheep that belongs to Him, you need His seal and that is gained by believing in Him.

So now is the time of salvation. Now is the day to call on Him to be saved.

People ignoring and yet keep driving through stop signs and haven't crashed yet are forgetting that eventually, they will crash if they do not stop and take heed in saving their lives. So procrastinating in responding to the Gospel will mean that eventually that the offer of salvation which could have saved their lives will no longer be available once they had died.

I rest in the promises of God as being God that He knows those that wanted to be saved from those that prefer their evil deeds than be reproved by Him.

One can almost hear it, "I'd rather burn in hell than give it up."

All those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, and yet in spite of the Good News, not everyone that heard the gospel, believes.

And as evident by the scriptures, there will be people burning in hell and the lake of fire forever.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:26 PM
 
1,079 posts, read 772,861 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Revelation 14:10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 14:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Psalm 139:7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Does anyone really think that hell and the lake of fire is somewhere outside the presence of God that He sees it not? As God's judgment is eternal, so His eyes are on them as His judgment are kept eternal. Does anyone really think hell and the lake of fire is a temporary residence?

Then explain why hell was not emptied upon Jesus' resurrection? Why are there bones still existing before His resurrection? In Jesus' parable, the rich man could hear Abraham and speak with him so Jesus preaching to those in Paradise means everyone in hell heard the Good News, but what?

Luke 16: 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The gulf is fixed. The judgment is eternal.

Now is the time of salvation.

The lost sheep are those that believe but went astray whethor their faith was overthrown or they were believers living the wild life as the prodigal son.

That is why judgment must fall on the House of God first to restore such a one to the path of righteousness foir His name's sake for all that the Father has given Him, he shall lose nothing.

John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The pre tribulational rapture event is when that judgment comes when those left behind are the foolish virgins that will finally have their lamps shining as the prodigal son will be returning because he is son for they have been bought with a price and sealed as His for believing in Him to be His sheep.

Romans 8: 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So to be the sheep that belongs to Him, you need His seal and that is gained by believing in Him.

So now is the time of salvation. Now is the day to call on Him to be saved.

People ignoring and yet keep driving through stop signs and haven't crashed yet are forgetting that eventually, they will crash if they do not stop and take heed in saving their lives. So procrastinating in responding to the Gospel will mean that eventually that the offer of salvation which could have saved their lives will no longer be available once they had died.

I rest in the promises of God as being God that He knows those that wanted to be saved from those that prefer their evil deeds than be reproved by Him.

One can almost hear it, "I'd rather burn in hell than give it up."

All those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, and yet in spite of the Good News, not everyone that heard the gospel, believes.

And as evident by the scriptures, there will be people burning in hell and the lake of fire forever.

Why did you stop at Revelation 20:10?

Look what comes afterward like hljc said:

After the Judgement in Revelations 21:4....``And God shall wipe away the tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death neither sorrow nor crying neither shall there be any more pain for the former things are passed away```.... Eternal life IN HIS Presence forever more......Glory to God.......
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:32 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,412,887 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
That is simply the most horredous view of God there is.

Rejoice in eternal torment of mankind.

Eek gad

after all judgment is pasted ,those without the gates, the sinners, still have a right to the tree of life and can enter within the gates and drink of the water of life freely.

But, but , but they can only do this when they learn to keep His commandments.

So say the scriptures.
That is what is in sciotamicks heart, and Vernas heart as well obviously since she agreed with him ... He relishes the idea that most people will suffer for ever .... That is not love, no matter what anyone says. It is hate, plain and simple.

Here is what the scriptures say ..

Eze 33:11
Say to them, As I live, said the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn you, turn you from your evil ways; for why will you die, O house of Israel?


And here is what Sciotamicks and Verna teach and believe ...


Quote:
Posted by Sciotamicks
"God's enemies are regarded by the saints as their enemies, and when the day of probation is past, their mind shall be so entirely one with God's, that they shall rejoice in witnessing visibly the judicial vindication of God's righteousness in sinners' punishment."
Insanity ... Misanthropy ... Evil ... Hate ... Self righteousness ... Pride ... Arrogance ... Selfishness ... Greed ... Violence ... These are the fruits of Fundamentalist Christianity.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-15-2010 at 03:41 PM..
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:44 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,580,989 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Scripture tell us that the torment is IN the presence of Jesus and His Holy angels.

This indicates then that Jesus is standing there watching all the people being tormented.

Scripture give a parable about ONE sheep being lost, and the good Sheppard going out and searching for that sheep until he finds it.

The sheep is LOST.

But

Who is it that SUFFERS the LOSS?

Is it the sheep or the Sheppard?

The LOSS[/color] is the Sheppard’s.

So as the torment is IN the presence of Jesus and His Holy angels, and that torments is eternal.

What do you think this would do to Jesus?[/color]
[/color]
Do you think he would say oh well you had your chance, so you are getting just what you deserve?

Do you think He would rejoice over torment of these sheep?

Or do you think Jesus would be broken hearted?

If you have watched the movie Schindler”s List one of the most touching scenes take s place at the end where Schindler fall to the ground and says something to this effect “I could have done more”, “I could have saved more”.[/color]

Schindler was TORMENT[/color] because he could not save all the Jews.

Therefore; do you not think Jesus, who is much more compassionate and powerful then Schindler would not also be [TORMENTED [/color]in SUFFERING the LOSS of many, many of His creation?

The doctrine of eternal torment not only makes man suffer torment for all eternity but it also make Jesus Christ suffer for eternity also, that is unless you are one of those who believe he would say oh well you had your chance, so you are getting just what you deserve; or that He would rejoice over torment of these sheep.

But even if one believes such as that, it still does not take away from the fact that the Sheppard would [color=#00b050]SUFFER the LOSS of the sheep.
I have that movie and watched it over and over again. The statement "I could have saved more" (a human love for another) is so heart breaking and made me ponder...how much more with God... Another instant was the scene where a Jew was about to be executed for not meeting the production quota and survived...the guns just wouldn't work...God's miracle if you ask me...why spare him and not the others?...that only HE knows the answer.

Blessings...
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:48 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,412,887 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I have that movie and watched it over and over again. The statement "I could have saved more" (a human love for another) is so heart breaking and made me ponder...how much more with God... Another instant was the scene where a Jew was about to be executed for not meeting the production quota and survived...the guns just wouldn't work...God's miracle if you ask me...why spare him and not the others?...that only HE knows the answer.

Blessings...
And fundamentalists believe that all those Jews who were tortured and murdered by the Third Reich went from the frying pan of the Nazi's prison camps into the fire of Gods eternal Torture pit.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
593 posts, read 651,986 times
Reputation: 157
Just adding...
John 17:2 "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

So correct Sciotamicks, Jesus suffered and was tortured, tormented and gave his blood for everyone's sin, took up our infirimities, carried our diseases and destroyed death for all who have faith in Him. Now he is sitting at the right hand of the Father and will never again suffer or be tormented by anything. When Jesus came the first time, it was not to judge, but to save. The second time he will come as Judge. And a judge does nor torment over just judgements. All those who do not believe in Christ will be judged by their deeds, (law). Those living by faith in Christ, there is no law. We are justified by faith in Christ, by what we know and live in our hearts, He has done, suffered, shed his blood, took our sins and nailed them to the cross, died, went to hell and destroyed the devil's work, conquered death and proved there was eternal life by his own resurrection and proved there was heaven by those watching the Lord ascend into heaven--all for us. Then- give us the Blessed gift of the Holy Spirit to help us live the life God has for us, to work out our salvation.

A question?? How long could you take a person verbally and in action hating you? Could you live with that person 24/7 for 70 years? Wouldn't one flee the evil?
Then why would we expect God to live with the devil, his angels and his followers for eternity? If we are not for God then we are against Him.

God Bless,
Mercy
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:04 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,580,989 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
And fundamentalists believe that all those Jews who were tortured and murdered by the Third Reich went from the frying pan of the Nazi's prison camps into the fire of Gods eternal Torture pit.
I cannot and will not believed that! The annihilation of the innocent Jews for the crime they did not commit could be likened to a "judicial system" gone awry...then double indemnity? Never entertained the thought...even as a passing fancy... My faith in my "Loving God" guides me!!!

Blessings...
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:09 PM
 
40,190 posts, read 26,820,188 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
And here is what Sciotamicks and Verna teach and believe ...


Insanity ... Misanthropy ... Evil ... Hate ... Self righteousness ... Pride ... Arrogance ... Selfishness ... Greed ... Violence ... These are the fruits of Fundamentalist Christianity.
That about sums it up, Iron!
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:28 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,574,615 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Why did you stop at Revelation 20:10?

Look what comes afterward like hljc said:

After the Judgement in Revelations 21:4....``And God shall wipe away the tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death neither sorrow nor crying neither shall there be any more pain for the former things are passed away```.... Eternal life IN HIS Presence forever more......Glory to God.......
I had included Revelation 21:8, but if you want to insist that chronologically, Revelation 21:4 supercedes all prior judgments then explain this as coming after your reference a mere few verses away.

Revelation 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

God is love but He is also Holy. Only those that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Only those that believe in Jesus Christ wants to be saved. The Gospel would not need to be preached unless the danger still exists that the living needs to be saved from.... and yet not everyone will believe.

It's like announcing the antidote for the disease call sin, but not everyone will believe it to receive it: they go on their way preferring the sin.

The wiping away of the tears are on those wayward sheep, the foolish virgins and the prodigal sons, for missing out on their first inheritance and becoming vessels unto dishonour in God's House. That is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth as that "damnation" is forever. Once those doors are shut, no one can have that first inheritance as a vessel unto honour in God's House for there is only one Marriage Supper of the Lamb... and that is when judgment falls on the House of God first which is why those left behind are the ones cast into the bed of the great tribulation as the hour of trial shall try all upon the earth thereby restoring the wayward... the lost sheep to the path of righteousness for His name's sake.

Everyone will hear the Gospel as the great tribulation commences. Then the destruction of Babylon will be made known. Then the warning of the consequences for receiving the mark of the beast will also be known to everyone by the angels.

So... no one will be without excuse. And yet still, some will take the mark of the beast.

So after His appearing, and after three angels, and the world still have sinners that prefer the darkness rather than come to the light that would take the mark of the beast.... I would have to say God knows those that want to be saved from those that prefer evil rather than come to God.

I'm sure a society will have no remorse and may even rejoice when a repeated child molestor is forever imprisoned. I'm sure society will have no remorse and may even rejoice when a seriel killer is executed.

The putting away of unrepentant evil as Satan and his angels are, can hardly be seen as done by an unloving God.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:43 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,773,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Just a quick reminder: Please do NOT post in red as it makes "mod cuts" within posts extremely difficult, if not altogether impossible at times. Any other color is fine, folks, but red is for mods, okay?

Thanks for understanding....
Sorry, June. I hit the quote button and didn't notice the red. It's too late for me to edit mine.
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