U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-15-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,455,894 times
Reputation: 11862

Advertisements

I don't get it;

We're supposed to forgive our enemies in this life, but after they die we're supposed to hate them enough that we can watch them being tortured/tormented forever? What's the big difference between treating them between life and death?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-15-2010, 07:15 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 4,794,469 times
Reputation: 4303
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
God has no weaknesses and He has NO negative human emotions! I weep for the psychological damage the religions have wreaked within the souls of so many otherwise beautiful people!
I know...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,494,473 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

tormented . . . in the presence of . . . angels -- ( Psa 49:14 58:10 139:21 Isa 66:24 ). God's enemies are regarded by the saints as their enemies, and when the day of probation is past, their mind shall be so entirely one with God's, that they shall rejoice in witnessing visibly the judicial vindication of God's righteousness in sinners' punishment.

Christ already was punished for sin for man's eternal life......man cannot be punished again for eternal life.
No faith, no life.
I find it interesting that this verse says "smoke of their torment." That means something. In another verse in Revelation it talks about the prayers of the saints being incense. Think of incense smoke.

Also, those that worship the beast don't have any rest. Why? Kind of like the 24/7 rat race and the worship of money. Concrete jungle and all that. And we are all in God's presence right now, right? Is he everywhere or not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 08:20 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,578,505 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I find it interesting that this verse says "smoke of their torment." That means something. In another verse in Revelation it talks about the prayers of the saints being incense. Think of incense smoke.

Also, those that worship the beast don't have any rest. Why? Kind of like the 24/7 rat race and the worship of money. Concrete jungle and all that. And we are all in God's presence right now, right? Is he everywhere or not?
We are...and HE IS!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,494,473 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Nahum 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revenges; the LORD revenges, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserves wrath for his enemies

Exodus 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,


GOD HATES WORKER'S OF INIQUITY! GET IT...?! HE HATES THEM!



IF YES...YOU ARE A WORKER OF INIQUITY! YOU HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN! AND HE HATES YOU! HE DOES NOT ABIDE IN YOU! NOR DOES HE KNOW YOU!
I wasn't going to quote your whole post. It was rather, well.....

Anyway, you didn't post the rest of those verses that went with all the "hate" ones. Those that said God was ready to welcome the people he "hated" back, etc. etc.

He "hates" people's deeds, not THEM. I promise, Verna.

Paragraph below from Tentmaker:Bible Matters--Is God Angry Ever Day?

Anger, as the word is ordinarily used, is not a noble emotion; it is altogether unworthy of God, and he is incapable of it. The wise man says (Ecc. vii:9): "Anger resteth in the bosom of fools." Then God cannot be "angry every day," all the time. What is the meaning of these words?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,180,854 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
OMG Verna . . . God is NOT human.
Zechariah 8:17
...., and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD


Did not the Jewish court find Jesus of blasphemy....
John 1:1

Go ahead and yourself out...

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Hate is a negative human emotion that has been twisted by our hurt ego into evil. God's ego cannot be hurt and He cannot and does not hate!!! Hate is evil and there is no evil in God.... . God has no weaknesses and He has NO negative human emotions!
more hippie love .........


Deuteronomy 12:31
You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates.

Deuteronomy 16:22
and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the LORD your God hates.

Psalm 5:5
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Isaiah 61:8
"For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity

Zechariah 8:17
do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD.

Malachi 1:2-3
[ Jacob Loved, Esau Hated ] "I have loved you," says the LORD. "But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated,

Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." see Malachi 1:2-3
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,649 posts, read 30,273,082 times
Reputation: 30189
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Zechariah 8:17
...., and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD


Did not the Jewish court find Jesus of blasphemy....
John 1:1

Go ahead and yourself out...

.


more hippie love .........


Deuteronomy 12:31
You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates.

Deuteronomy 16:22
and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the LORD your God hates.

Psalm 5:5
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Isaiah 61:8
"For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity

Zechariah 8:17
do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD.

Malachi 1:2-3
[ Jacob Loved, Esau Hated ] "I have loved you," says the LORD. "But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated,

Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." see Malachi 1:2-3
Great post! Jesus was human and He is God But of course you gotta believe the Bible to know this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,426,773 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Verna...

You just said:

"AND HE (GOD) HATES YOU!"
.

..yes sparrow ...if you live in your sin, which is just another word for iniquity, you are considered a "worker of iniquity"..."arrogant"..."proud"..."boastful"..."t roublemakers"..."foolish"...
"wicked"..."unjust"..."insolent fools", and God hates you. He will not abide within anyone who lives a life in sin...He knows not those who live a life of sin...Anyone who claims they know Him or love Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in them...Thus saith the Lord God Almighty.

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; You hate all who do wrong. New International Version

Psalm 5:5 Therefore, the proud may not stand in your presence, for You hate all who do evil. New Living Translation

Psalm 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; You hate all evildoers. English Standard Version

Psalm 5:5 Those who brag cannot stand in your sight. You hate all troublemakers. GOD'S WORD® Translation

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. King James Bible

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in your sight: You hate all workers of iniquity. American King James Version

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. American Standard Version

Psalm 5:5 The sons of pride have no place before you; You are a hater of all workers of evil. Bible in Basic English

Psalm 5:5 Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before Thy eyes. Douay-Rheims Bible

Psalm 5:5 Insolent fools shall not stand before thine eyes; Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Darby Bible Translation

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. English Revised Version

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Webster's Bible Translation

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in your sight. You hate all workers of iniquity. Young's Literal Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow

Verna.

Listen to yourself.

What is going on?
...I'm trying very hard...in every way I know how, to guide you in the way you should go...by and through the Holy Spirit of Christ working within me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
Is everything ok??
...no sparrow...everything is not o.k.........the state of your souls are not o.k.........it's not o.k...o.k..?....what's o.k. about knowing that otherwise perfectly precious people...who I know I could be with in person and love and adore are headed for complete destruction and separation from the very God they so wish with everything in them to be with for all eternity...?......UR is a lie sparrow...it goes against God's Word...you all have learned a lie and you are teaching it to the innocent...sin is the transgression of the law...the law is the ten commandments of God...whether they be written on a tablet of stone...or written upon a willing heart...it's the same law...This saith the Lord God Almighty. It is so painful for me......I am very, very hurt...for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
We're here if you need us.
I need you to listen...I need you in heaven with me......I have to know this is where you will be...and I will do all that I possibly can to get you there with me...the state of your soul is the most important thing to God..therefore the state of your soul is the most important thing to me too...and I mean this with all of my heart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
Your words do not reflect someone who has a lot of peace in their heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
Come talk to us.
...peace...?..I have a very peaceful heart sparrow...but sorrow...great sorrow fills my heart too...I cry for you...I can hardly see through the tears now as I type this to you.....

people will not have a chance to reconcile themselves to God after they die a physical death sparrow...they must make their choice before they die...Thus saith the Lord God Almighty...please...stop teaching otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
peace,
sparrow
Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Luke 13:27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

Psalm 36:12 There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.

Psalm 140:10 "May burning coals fall upon them; May they be cast into the fire, Into deep pits from which they cannot rise

Isaiah 26:14 The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.

Proverbs 21:15 The exercise of justice is joy for the righteous, But is terror to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 10:29 The way of the LORD is a stronghold to the upright, But ruin to the workers of iniquity.

Job 34:22 No darkness is thick enough to hide the wicked from his eyes.

Amos 9:2 "Though they dig into Sheol, From there will My hand take them; And though they ascend to heaven, From there will I bring them down.

Amos 9:3 "Though they hide on the summit of Carmel, I will search them out and take them from there; And though they conceal themselves from My sight on the floor of the sea, From there I will command the serpent and it will bite them.

Psalm 53:4 Have the workers of wickedness no knowledge, Who eat up My people as though they ate bread And have not called upon God?

Jeremiah 4:22 "For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding. They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."

Proverbs 10:29 The way of the LORD is a refuge for the righteous, but it is the ruin of those who do evil.

Proverbs 13:6 Righteousness guards the one whose way is blameless, But wickedness subverts the sinner.

I do love you with all of my heart...and I want nothing for you but the best that God has to give to you...for all of eternity......no other motive, but love for you.

In Christ's love..truly...
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 07-15-2010 at 09:28 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:24 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,408,785 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
.

..yes sparrow ...if you live in your sin, which is just another word for iniquity, you are considered a "worker of iniquity"..."arrogant"..."proud"..."boastful"..."t roublemakers"..."foolish"...
"wicked"..."unjust"..."insolent fools", and God hates you. He will not abide within anyone who lives a life in sin...He knows not those who live a life of sin...Anyone who claims they know Him or love Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in them...Thus saith the Lord God Almighty.

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; You hate all who do wrong. New International Version

Psalm 5:5 Therefore, the proud may not stand in your presence, for You hate all who do evil. New Living Translation

Psalm 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; You hate all evildoers. English Standard Version

Psalm 5:5 Those who brag cannot stand in your sight. You hate all troublemakers. GOD'S WORD® Translation

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. King James Bible

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in your sight: You hate all workers of iniquity. American King James Version

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. American Standard Version

Psalm 5:5 The sons of pride have no place before you; You are a hater of all workers of evil. Bible in Basic English

Psalm 5:5 Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before Thy eyes. Douay-Rheims Bible

Psalm 5:5 Insolent fools shall not stand before thine eyes; Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Darby Bible Translation

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. English Revised Version

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Webster's Bible Translation

Psalm 5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in your sight. You hate all workers of iniquity. Young's Literal Translation



...I'm trying very hard...in every way I know how, to guide you in the way you should go...by and through the Holy Spirit of Christ working within me.


...no sparrow...everything is not o.k.........the state of your souls are not o.k.........it's not o.k...o.k..?....what's o.k. about knowing that otherwise perfectly precious people...who I know I could be with in person and love and adore are headed for complete destruction and separation from the very God they so wish with everything in them to be with for all eternity...?......UR is a lie sparrow...it goes against God's Word...you all have learned a lie and you are teaching it to the innocent...sin is the transgression of the law...the law is the ten commandments of God...whether they be written on a tablet of stone...or written upon a willing heart...it's the same law...This saith the Lord God Almighty. It is so painful for me......I am very, very hurt...for you.
I need you to listen...I need you in heaven with me......I have to know this is where you will be...and I will do all that I possibly can to get you there with me...the state of your soul is the most important thing to God..therefore the state of your soul is the most important thing to me too...and I mean this with all of my heart.
...peace...?..I have a very peaceful heart sparrow...but sorrow...great sorrow fills my heart too...I cry for you...I can hardly see through the tears now as I type this to you.....

people will not have a chance to reconcile themselves to God after they die a physical death sparrow...they must make their choice before they die...Thus saith the Lord God Almighty...please...stop teaching this.



Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Luke 13:27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

Psalm 36:12 There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.

Psalm 140:10 "May burning coals fall upon them; May they be cast into the fire, Into deep pits from which they cannot rise

Isaiah 26:14 The dead will not live, the departed spirits will not rise; Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And You have wiped out all remembrance of them.

Proverbs 21:15 The exercise of justice is joy for the righteous, But is terror to the workers of iniquity.

Proverbs 10:29 The way of the LORD is a stronghold to the upright, But ruin to the workers of iniquity.

Job 34:22 No darkness is thick enough to hide the wicked from his eyes.

Amos 9:2 "Though they dig into Sheol, From there will My hand take them; And though they ascend to heaven, From there will I bring them down.

Amos 9:3 "Though they hide on the summit of Carmel, I will search them out and take them from there; And though they conceal themselves from My sight on the floor of the sea, From there I will command the serpent and it will bite them.

Psalm 53:4 Have the workers of wickedness no knowledge, Who eat up My people as though they ate bread And have not called upon God?

Jeremiah 4:22 "For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding. They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."

Proverbs 10:29 The way of the LORD is a refuge for the righteous, but it is the ruin of those who do evil.

Proverbs 13:6 Righteousness guards the one whose way is blameless, But wickedness subverts the sinner.

I do love you with all of my heart...and I want nothing for you but the best that God has to give to you...for all of eternity......no other motive, but love for you.

In Christ's love..truly...
Verna.
Blinded by the veil of the Old Testament ... This is the leaven of the pharisees and the sin of the scribes ... Its all a part of the eye for an eye traditions of the law of sin and death which Christ changed, as it is written ...


Hbr 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Through Christ there came a change from the law of sin and death to the law of liberty ... You are still under the condemnation of the law of sin and therefore you live with condemnation of the world in your heart.

If you truly lived with love in your heart for all people including your enemies, then you wouldn't have a moment of peace in this life if you also believed most of them were going to be eternally punished. That is a fact ... You wouldn't be able to sleep at night until you cried yourself to exhaustion. Life would be torture and not peace as the true good news of the restitution of all things brings to the heart of those that in fact have love for all people in their hearts ...

Yes in the old testament we are told that God hates sinners, but If Christ is God, and i believe he is, then when he told us to love our enemies and when he made it known that we are all sinners and guilty under the law he is also saying that he love us sinners and he loved us while we were yet his enemies. You have to see that the veil of the old testament is done away with in Christ as the scriptures testify ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-15-2010 at 09:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,188 posts, read 21,032,415 times
Reputation: 22134
Gadzooks!!!
So... it seems that telling someone that God hates them is a good thing???
Personally, I don't think anyone here should be speaking for God. I certainly wouldn't want anyone else going around telling people that I hate them! That's kind of for me to decide. And personally, I don't hate anyone. I may dislike some people or simply not want to be around them - but I don't really hate anyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top