U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-17-2010, 10:33 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,331 times
Reputation: 580

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
Then try explaining it courteously next time and not like a rude smart@ss fundie.
Still here? Like a pesky little knat. Now I am a fundie? lol, that is a good one. Smart@ss, yes sometimes. Rude, yes sometimes. Fundy?? ROFL!! NOT!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2010, 10:43 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,557,049 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Still here? Like a pesky little knat. Now I am a fundie? lol, that is a good one. Smart@ss, yes sometimes. Rude, yes sometimes. Fundy?? ROFL!! NOT!

OK,my bad.The smart@ssness and rudeness just threw me off.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 07:14 AM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I suppose that is the difference between us.

I do pray, and witness.

Why would believing this doctrine or that one keep me from having a relationship with the Father?

IOW, why are you not witnessing and praying?

Could it be because you feel you don't need to, since everyone is saved already?

Then, I would rather pray your doctrine is right, because you have hidden your coin, and not multiplied it.
Hotinaz i never said you weren't witnessing and praying , even though you are presuming i do not witness and pray , what i said was, i would never cease for one moment to do so if i believed my unbelieving family that i love so dearly were to be annihilated because of their unbelief . I think you knew i was saying this.

There is not a soul that i desire not to be saved today , my prayer is they come to know salvation in real time , right now , that they experience the riches His grace right now , that they know the reality of His love for them right now .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 07:57 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,331 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Hotinaz i never said you weren't witnessing and praying , even though you are presuming i do not witness and pray , what i said was, i would never cease for one moment to do so if i believed my unbelieving family that i love so dearly were to be annihilated because of their unbelief . I think you knew i was saying this.

There is not a soul that i desire not to be saved today , my prayer is they come to know salvation in real time , right now , that they experience the riches His grace right now , that they know the reality of His love for them right now .
Awesome then.

In season, or out, we should be spreading the message of Life!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,229,573 times
Reputation: 402
Hotin, still waiting for your take on post 70.

and

this question

Hotin if people cease to exist after a physical death, how is it that they are raised up to stand before the great white throne?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 09:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,331 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Hotin, still waiting for your take on post 70.

and

this question

Hotin if people cease to exist after a physical death, how is it that they are raised up to stand before the great white throne?
Death is the sentence. To be sentenced, you must be judged, by the Judge.

The soul that sins, dies. It doesn't say the body, it says the soul.

How can a person who does not know the law, sin? My question to you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 09:43 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,331 times
Reputation: 580
As far as post 70 is concerned, can we do this not asking so many questions in one post?

TOL is the Tree of Life for the first question. Be back for the others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 09:59 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,331 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post

I agree that we must be His and be found in Him to enter into His kingdom.

But what does it say about those without the gates of the city?

Revelation 22:14-17
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Who are these people outside the gates of the city?
All those who are 'without Christ'.

Quote:
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

What right do those people have that are outside the gates of the city?

They have the right to the tree of life

They have the right to enter into the city via the gates.

What gives them these rights?


Chapter 22 is not dealing(IMO) with the next life. It is dealing with this life. Those in Christ ALREADY have access to the TOL, now. Not later. Those who are 'outside', without Christ and are sinners, defined by verse 15, do not have any way to get INTO the Kingdom Gates. It is narrow, remember.

Quote:
The keeping of His commandments


This is only a part of it. Not the way in. Jesus is the only way into the Kingdom, for there are none righteous, no not one.


Quote:
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.

Whom are the spirit and the bride saying come to?


The invitation is open to ALL to receive Him.


Quote:
Whosoever will

What do whosoever get?

And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


Let him that is thirsty come. These are they that seek Life giving Water found only through Jesus. They seek Him. They follow Him. They even OBEY Hiim, and His commands. These are those who are thirsty for more.


Quote:
The water of life freely.

Who is the whosoever in reference to?


It IS free. It IS a gift. It is open to EVERYONE, no exceptions.

Quote:
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

When does all this take place?


Everyday, since the beginning.


Quote:
After the judgment of the great white throne.



Only in chronological order written down. But the end is the invitation we ALL have. Not after death. Verse 10 was the closing statement for the prophecy given to John. The rest applies everyday, to everyone.

Quote:
These scriptures show most emphatically that WHOSOEVER will is in relation to those in DEATH and that those in DEATH still have the right to the tree of life and can enter into the gates of the city when they learn to keep His commandments.


For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.

How can there be a part 2, when it says they don't know anything.

Last edited by HotinAZ; 07-18-2010 at 10:10 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,418,309 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
I'm not going to argue about a phrase such as "spiritual death" that is not in the scriptures, at least not to my knowledge. My definition was anyone who is not alive in Christ is spiritually dead.
For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death. 2 Corinthians 7:10.

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles [the obedient believer's] also the repentance that leads to life." Acts 11:18
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
The soul that sins, dies. It doesn't say the body, it says the soul.
I just don't understand why you keep saying this passage is somehow proof of annihilation.

Here is the WHOLE verse:
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

The word used for soul in the first part of the verse is nephesh which means a breathing creature... And with the rest of the verse you can see that it is NOT talking about anything other than a person sinning will die for HIS OWN SINS.

Soul is body + spirit... the breathing creature who dies will die because of his own sin.
(See: Jeremiah 31:30)
Nothing more nothing less... and the other one?

Ezekiel 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

So... in conclusion.... the soul means living creature or person... not the 3rd part of a triune man.

Check out this passage: Matt. 16
25 For whoever wants to save his life (psuchēn) will lose it, but whoever loses his life (psuchēn) for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul (psuchēn)? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul (psuchēs)?

All the same word... life=soul... Can I make it any clearer for you?

If this is the only proof you have for annihilation... well it is no proof at all IMO but a gross misinterpretation of scripture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top