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Old 07-23-2010, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,236,529 times
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Hotin you still have not answered this question

You still have not showed me why you believe apollumi means being prepared to destruction. Even the definition you used does not support your understanding, so where do you get this understanding?


If you are done with the discussion that ok, but IMO your whole beleif is based on a definition of apollumi that is NOT supported by any translation.

pray about it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:46 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Hotin you still have not answered this question
Sorry, didn't feel led to at the time.

Quote:
You still have not showed me why you believe apollumi means being prepared to destruction.


If something is to BE destroyed, then would you not reckon that God our Father, who created ALL, would already have had that in mind, WHILE creating? After all, He can see the end FROM the beginning.

So, by simple logic, those that are TO BE destroyed, were destined or prepared FOR destruction. IOW, everything, including you and me.

This is where the magnificance comes into His plan of 'salvation'. To be saved, is to be saved FROM what? Death.

How was this possible?

He HAD TO DIE. Now THAT is love.

Only through Jesus can we be 'born-anew', a 'new creation', born from Him, and INTO Him. Part of the Body of Christ.

Quote:
Even the definition you used does not support your understanding, so where do you get this understanding?


Eyes to see, ears to hear.



Quote:
If you are done with the discussion that ok, but IMO your whole beleif is based on a definition of apollumi that is NOT supported by any translation.


No, wasn't done yet with discussion, just wasn't in a rush.



Quote:
pray about it.


Have, and this was the answer given.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,236,529 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
If something is to BE destroyed, then would you not reckon that God our Father, who created ALL, would already have had that in mind, WHILE creating? After all, He can see the end FROM the beginning.

So, by simple logic, those that are TO BE destroyed, were destined or prepared FOR destruction. IOW, everything, including you and me.




Hotin God did not make man to destroy him, God made man to be in His image and likeness. In other words, God did not prepare man to be destroyed. This is clearly seen in that Christ came to save men out of DEATH.

I also showed you what fitted or prepared means, and it is totally opposite of what you say it means.

Hotin you have built a foundation on your own logic and not on the scriptural meaning of the words. You have made up your own definition of apollumi, and I must say if one has to make up their own definition of the meaning of scriptural words, their doctrine is built on the sand and will eventually come crashing down.

Quote:
This is where the magnificance comes into His plan of 'salvation'. To be saved, is to be saved FROM what? Death.


WE are not saved from death we are save OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were yet DEAD in trespasses and sin that Christ died for us. The gospel is not about being saved from anything itís all about being saved OUT OF everything.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:56 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,367 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post



Hotin God did not make man to destroy him, God made man to be in His image and likeness. In other words, God did not prepare man to be destroyed. This is clearly seen in that Christ came to save men out of DEATH.

I also showed you what fitted or prepared means, and it is totally opposite of what you say it means.

Hotin you have built a foundation on your own logic and not on the scriptural meaning of the words. You have made up your own definition of apollumi, and I must say if one has to make up their own definition of the meaning of scriptural words, their doctrine is built on the sand and will eventually come crashing down.



WE are not saved from death we are save OUT OF DEATH, for it was while we were yet DEAD in trespasses and sin that Christ died for us. The gospel is not about being saved from anything itís all about being saved OUT OF everything.
You are speaking double speech, and brother, it isn't going to work on me.

Quote:
Hotin you have built a foundation on your own logic and not on the scriptural meaning of the words.
You take what man says about words, and I am listening to where the Spirit leads. Who do you think you are, really, telling me I have built MY OWN foundation on anything BUT Christ?

This is about as insulting as it gets.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What was it that we were saved from?

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.

Maybe I cannot read or something. Maybe I am not listening to the 'right voice'.

Quote:
I also showed you what fitted or prepared means, and it is totally opposite of what you say it means.
I was led there, so take it up with God, as He has me now where I am at.

Quote:
Hotin God did not make man to destroy him, God made man to be in His image and likeness.
But did he remain that way? NO! Read Genesis. So, take a step back and see WHY God made a man destined for destruction.

It was to GLORIFY the SON. It has always been and will always be, about HIM. Nothing to do with you, unless He is IN you. Then you are included in the plan. Outside of this, you are dead. No life. No nothing. Destined for destruction.

Quote:
In other words, God did not prepare man to be destroyed.


Sure He did. There are more that will be destroyed, than saved. Only a lack of understanding the plan of salvation would give a person such an ego to think it was about them. It isn't. It is about Jesus Christ, and those who are and will be, His Flock.

Quote:
This is clearly seen in that Christ came to save men out of DEATH


Out of destruction. IOW, LIFE. Opposite of death.
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,913 posts, read 4,236,529 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
You are speaking double speech, and brother, it isn't going to work on me.


How am I speaking double speech Hotin?



Quote:
You take what man says about words, and I am listening to where the Spirit leads. Who do you think you are, really, telling me I have built MY OWN foundation on anything BUT Christ?


I was not implying you built on anything other than Christ brother.

However, the doctrine you subscribe to is built on the sand of your own logic of the meaning of apollumi. You even posted the meaning of apollumi, which does not equate with what you believe it means.

Do you not see a problem with that?

Quote:
This is about as insulting as it gets.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
What was it that we were saved from?


Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.


Brother they are not saved from death they are saved out of death, that is why it says from death unto life. Is this where you think I am speaking double speak?

If so, let me try to explain myself.

Your belief if I understand it correctly is that man is saved from DEATH, meaning man is saved from entering death. I donít believe that is what from in those scriptures are speaking of keeping people from death, but means that we are saved out of death, as from death unto life.



Quote:
Maybe I cannot read or something. Maybe I am not listening to the 'right voice'.

I was led there, so take it up with God, as He has me now where I am at.


Brother, everyone can say that. Do you think those who believe in ET or UR would state anything otherwise?



Quote:
But did he remain that way? NO! Read Genesis. So, take a step back and see WHY God made a man destined for destruction.


I have done many a study into Genesis brother and one thing I have learned is that almost everyone believes that Gen.1:26-27 is speaking of Adam. This is an erroneous view.

Gen.1:26-27 is speaking of Christ and us in Christ and man will NEVER fall away after becoming ONE with Christ and God.

Men, as we are right now is not in God image and likeness, Gods image and likeness can only come through Christ. Tis why it says that Adam is male and female created He THEM.

Therefore, man was NOT destined for destruction; man was and is destined to be made through Christ in the image and likeness of God.

Gen.1:26-27 is not about the first man Adam, it is a prophesy of Christ and us in Christ, Christ and us, THEM



Quote:
It was to GLORIFY the SON. It has always been and will always be, about HIM. Nothing to do with you, unless He is IN you. Then you are included in the plan. Outside of this, you are dead. No life. No nothing. Destined for destruction.

Sure He did. There are more that will be destroyed, than saved.



I agree, except for the destined for destruction. Hotin, man that is outside of Christ, dead, having no life are ALREADY in destruction/Aollumi and it is out of destruction/Apollumi Christ saves us. Scripture says He came to seek and to save the apollumi/lost. In other words, He came to seek and to save those who are IN destruction.

If one soul is lost brother, Christ would suffer the loss for it was for them that He came to save.

Do you honestly believe Christ will suffer the lost of even one of those He came to save?


Hotin man is ALREADY destroyed.

Quote:
Only a lack of understanding the plan of salvation would give a person such an ego to think it was about them. It isn't. It is about Jesus Christ, and those who are and will be, His Flock.


I donít think it is about any man brother, my whole belief rest solely on Christ and that which He did for the whole world.

Quote:
Out of destruction. IOW, LIFE. Opposite of death.


Out of destruction. IOW, resurrection
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