U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-15-2010, 05:45 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,471,008 times
Reputation: 580

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Who is the King of the Kingdom?
For myself, Jesus the risen Christ.
For the unbeliever,,,who know. The bible says Satan is their ruler.

Quote:
And if it is the Kingdom rules that all people the world over are subject to then doesn't the King of the Kingdom have authority over all people?
Satan has rule over the world systems, otherwise he would not have tempted Jesus with them.
Jesus is the King over ALL who believe.

Quote:
Therefore, if a sinner can be thrown in hell for disobeying the commands of the King of the Kingdom... they must be part of the Kingdom.
You play this game with me thinking I am a ET buff or something. Actually, they are dead. I do not believe in ET, remember.

Quote:
Point being you can't say that sinners are under the rule of the Kingdom but are then not part of the kingdom.. can you?
Did I say that? If so, I am mistaken. Sinners are NOT a part of the Kingdom of our Father and Jesus unless they have asked for forgiveness and repented for their sins.

Quote:
Same with the sheep. Believers and the righteous are not lost so they couldn't even be lost sheep. Could they?
Yep, at times we all are led astray. But through faith, He always is there to find us and lead us home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-15-2010, 05:46 PM
 
Location: New England
32,224 posts, read 21,101,518 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Only in the sense He created everything. It is like saying we come from mother earth through reproduction.

But if you think this pertains to the Kingdom He declared?? Think again.
This one has already done the rounds and been resisted and teeth gnashed at by the fundy's.

28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring. Acts 17
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 05:47 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,608,411 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Only in the sense He created everything. It is like saying we come from mother earth through reproduction.

But if you think this pertains to the Kingdom He declared?? Think again.
No not only in the sense that He created everything. God is the God of the wicked. He is their Father in that sense. But they are not born of His Spirit. They are not His Spiritual offspring. He is not their spiritual Father.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 05:55 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,471,008 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This one has already done the rounds and been resisted and teeth gnashed at by the fundy's.

28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring. Acts 17
To say otherwise means we are ALL not God's creation, which we are. Duh.

But why don't you read all of it in context, and pay attention to WHAT HE IS SAYING. Like verse 27, 30, 31.

Man was removed FROM the Kingdom in Genesis, which i know is hard to swallow since you may not even believe Genesis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 05:57 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,471,008 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
No not only in the sense that He created everything. God is the God of the wicked. He is their Father in that sense. But they are not born of His Spirit. They are not His Spiritual offspring. He is not their spiritual Father.
Ok, following that line of thought, I will complete it.

They will then die the spiritual death. You MUST be born anew OF the spirit, by the Spirit to inherit,,,INHERIT, eternal life. It is not taken by force, nor can you sneak in. It must be though the blood of the Lamb. Period.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 06:00 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,608,411 times
Reputation: 181
HotinAZ,

What conclusion do you draw from -- not all have God as their Father?

Anyone who is not born again does not have God as his Father per the verses you quoted. So many who do not have God as their Father, later do have God as their Father -- when they are born of His Spirit. So not having God as your Father does not mean you are not going to be saved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 06:02 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,608,411 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Ok, following that line of thought, I will complete it.

They will then die the spiritual death. You MUST be born anew OF the spirit, by the Spirit to inherit,,,INHERIT, eternal life. It is not taken by force, nor can you sneak in. It must be though the blood of the Lamb. Period.
I agree. But you are mistaken if you think spiritual death means everlasting death. The prodigal son died a spiritual death. It says he was DEAD while he was eating and sleeping and pondering. The prodigal son was NOT born again until he returned. He was a child of the devil. The father in the house was NOT his Spiritual Father per the verses you quoted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: New England
32,224 posts, read 21,101,518 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
To say otherwise means we are ALL not God's creation, which we are. Duh.

But why don't you read all of it in context, and pay attention to WHAT HE IS SAYING. Like verse 27, 30, 31.

Man was removed FROM the Kingdom in Genesis, which i know is hard to swallow since you may not even believe Genesis.
And Jesus came to restore man back to Himself

6So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I see no evidence from fundamental christianity that it has taken on a role has an ambassador , i also see no evidence of it imploring on His behalf to be reconciled.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: New England
32,224 posts, read 21,101,518 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
We all like sheep have gone astray , each to their own way . What happens to sheep that go astray ?, yes you've got it they become lost . Who did Jesus say He came to seek and Save ? , yes you've got it , the lost .

You just happen to be found by Him before many others , if you really believe in Him .

Or do you believe even though you were lost you found your way back to God yourself ?
HotinAz I'm waiting for an answer on this one.

Thanks !!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2010, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,669,238 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
For myself, Jesus the risen Christ.
For the unbeliever,,,who know. The bible says Satan is their ruler.
Well.. like I said.. if you believe the unbeliever is under the same set of rules as you are then their ruler must be the same ruler...right?


Quote:
Satan has rule over the world systems, otherwise he would not have tempted Jesus with them.
Jesus is the King over ALL who believe.
Well I don't believe in satan as you do so I will skip over that. However, Jesus is the King over all who believe brings us back to how little he accomplishes or rather how small his kingdom is compared to the ones outside the kingdom.. right? So Christ's death was ineffectual for the majority of people.


Quote:
You play this game with me thinking I am a ET buff or something. Actually, they are dead. I do not believe in ET, remember.
I was generalizing here... put annihilated there then... So a sinner can be annihilated for not following the commands of God/Jesus but he is not a member of the Kingdom? How then is he subject to the commands, and therefore punished/annihilated for not keeping them?

Quote:
Did I say that? If so, I am mistaken. Sinners are NOT a part of the Kingdom of our Father and Jesus unless they have asked for forgiveness and repented for their sins.
UM... if sinners are PUNISHED for NOT doing the commands of God and they are not part of God's kingdom but that of another then WHY are they obligated to keep God's kingdom's commands?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top