U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-17-2010, 10:51 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,392,440 times
Reputation: 329

Advertisements

Rose colored glasses? lol...The Good News is not an invitation my friend. It's a proclamation. A proclamation of Good News to those without hope.

Eph 2:12 that ye were at that time apart from Christ, having been alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world;

Now, look at what Jesus tells those that stood idle all day long:

Go ye -- also ye -- to the vineyard, and whatever may be righteous I will give you.

There is no "invitation" to go to the vineyard. There is no "decision to be made" to go. It is a command of Christ: Go ye to the vineyard!

And what is it they are to receive in the vineyard? Whatever Jesus will choose to give them. In this case whatever may be righteous! It is His righteousness to give them! He will DECLARE them "Righteous". Look here what Paul tells us:

Rom 5:16 and not as through one who did sin is the free gift, for the judgment indeed is of one to condemnation, but the gift is of many offences to a declaration of `Righteous,'

Yes, their flesh, as well as ours, will be destroyed. That you've said in truth. But their spirit, as well as ours, will be saved through Him and by His life!

Rom 5:9 much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath;

Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

Praise God for it my friend!

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 07-17-2010 at 11:04 AM.. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2010, 11:02 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,001 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Rose colored glasses? lol...The Good News is not an invitation my friend. It's a proclamation. A proclamation of Good News to those without hope.

Eph 2:12 that ye were at that time apart from Christ, having been alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world;

Now, look at what Jesus tells those that stood idle all day long:

Go ye -- also ye -- to the vineyard, and whatever may be righteous I will give you.

There is no "invitation" to go to the vineyard. There is no "decision to be made" to go. It is a command of Christ: Go ye to the vineyard!

And what is it they are to receive in the vineyard? Whatever Jesus will choose to give them. In this case whatever may be righteous! It is His righteousness to give them! He will DECLARE them "Righteous". Look here what Paul tells us:

Rom 5:16 and not as through one who did sin is the free gift, for the judgment indeed is of one to condemnation, but the gift is of many offences to a declaration of `Righteous,'

Yes, their flesh, as well as ours, will be destroyed. That you've said in truth. But their Spirit, as well as ours, will be saved through Him and by His life!

Rom 5:9 much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath;

Rom 5:10 for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life.

Praise God for it my friend!

Um,, Luke 14:16-27. Read it, understand it. Leave the glasses off.

The invitation is open to ALL, but not all will come.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 11:22 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,392,440 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Um,, Luke 14:16-27. Read it, understand it. Leave the glasses off.

The invitation is open to ALL, but not all will come.
Actually, the word you've rendered "invitation" in Luke 14:16 etc., is καλέω (kaleo). It means to CALL. Here is the same word used by Jesus in calling the sinner to reformation, not the righteous ones. For Christ came not to save the righteous, but sinners and the lost:

Mat 9:13 but having gone, learn ye what is, Kindness I will, and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call righteous men, but sinners, to reformation.'

Mat 18:11 for the Son of Man did come to save the lost.

Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'

and again here it is used by Jesus in the parable under discussion:

Mat 20:8 `And evening having come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward, Call the workmen, and pay them the reward, having begun from the last--unto the first.

The word CALL IS NOT an invitation. In the parable, this word is used as a calling to receive payment! In this case, the Righteousness of Christ, who died for them!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,085 posts, read 34,367,413 times
Reputation: 10482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
What do you think that Jesus meant when he said that the first shall be last?
It talks about God's sovereignty, generosity and human jealousy.

God (the owner of the field) will do as he pleases with his money, so if he wants to pay the same wage for 8 hours of work the same as for 1 hour of work, it is entirely up to him.

He shows generosity towards those who worked only one hour.

He keeps his word to those who worked 8 hours.

Yet, the people who worked 8 hours were jealous of those who worked only one hour.

Yes, you are just as saved if you accepted Christ arely in your life as opposed to accepting Christ on your deathbed. As long as you accept Christ as your Lord and saviour during your lifetime, it does not matter when during you life you did it.

And then ending 'many are called, but few are chosen' simply means that not everyone will be saved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,291,217 times
Reputation: 869
I like the "comrade" part! Very "Communismal!"

Blessings,
brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: in the woods
180 posts, read 229,283 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Actually, the word you've rendered "invitation" in Luke 14:16 etc., is καλέω (kaleo). It means to CALL. Here is the same word used by Jesus in calling the sinner to reformation, not the righteous ones. For Christ came not to save the righteous, but sinners and the lost:

Mat 9:13 but having gone, learn ye what is, Kindness I will, and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call righteous men, but sinners, to reformation.'

Mat 18:11 for the Son of Man did come to save the lost.

Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'

and again here it is used by Jesus in the parable under discussion:

Mat 20:8 `And evening having come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward, Call the workmen, and pay them the reward, having begun from the last--unto the first.

The word CALL IS NOT an invitation. In the parable, this word is used as a calling to receive payment! In this case, the Righteousness of Christ, who died for them!
Hello AlabamaStorm,

One must recieve the payment though.....just a thought.
God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 01:44 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,392,440 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerimiahJohnson View Post
Hello AlabamaStorm,

One must recieve the payment though.....just a thought.
God bless.
Yes, you're right. And Jesus, in the parable, tells us they, or rather "YE SHALL RECEIVE" it:

Mat 20:7 they say to him, Because no one did hire us; he saith to them, Go ye--ye also--to the vineyard, and whatever may be righteous ye shall receive.

This word λαμβάνω (translated as "shall receive") means to take hold of and get it! It is not a mere passive act, but rather something the recipient wants to get. Jesus tells us that they shall receive it.

An amazing parable that teaches all will receive the Kingdom. And not only receive it, but also want it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,492,775 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
I'm not sure but one thing does pop into my mind IF this was such a scenario (as what you described above) is Billy who knew the Father's love through his life wouldn't mind being "last".... while the drug addict, who did not know His Father's love all of those years, would NEED to be with the Father first. And I think Billy would have no problems with being "last" (longsuffering and patience and all that), knowing the needs of his brother who was in darkness for so long. Do you know what I mean..? I think about those people who suffered through life not understanding just how loved they are by their Creator. Well, just something that came to mind. I'm sure there are other interepretations that fit as well.

I just can't understand why Christians talk about people rejecting God and dooming themselves to hell. What does humanity thirst after? What was that woman at the well thirsting after? She didn't know. People all over this planet run around in circles looking for love, peace, happiness, joy, and a million other things looking to fill a horrible void.

If they only SAW, UNDERSTOOD, and FELT the peace that comes from knowing the light!

People don't reject all those things (GOD) because they don't want him. They reject it because they believe paradise is too good to be true, and probably because they look around this planet and believe the darkness must rule everywhere in this universe, because that is all they see here.

Mostly, people just give up.

I don't believe for one second that humanity truly wants death, destruction, madness, chaos, pain, confusion, and brutality to reign forever.

That is what the church says people CHOOSE, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 03:21 PM
 
11,261 posts, read 11,276,606 times
Reputation: 3458
Quote:
The parable of the Labourers in the vinyard ... The fist shall be the last.
Reminds me of a story I once read in an Italian/American newspaper about a bunch of laborers in a vinyard who got into a fistfight and the "fist' one to throw the punch actually turned out to be the last one standing. Course he had a few vacancies in his mouth and one heck of a shiner but he was still all smiles at the end.

Sorry, ironmaw, I didn't mean to distract from an otherwise serious topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2010, 08:51 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,001 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Actually, the word you've rendered "invitation" in Luke 14:16 etc., is καλέω (kaleo). It means to CALL. Here is the same word used by Jesus in calling the sinner to reformation, not the righteous ones. For Christ came not to save the righteous, but sinners and the lost:

Mat 9:13 but having gone, learn ye what is, Kindness I will, and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call righteous men, but sinners, to reformation.'

Mat 18:11 for the Son of Man did come to save the lost.

Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'

and again here it is used by Jesus in the parable under discussion:

Mat 20:8 `And evening having come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward, Call the workmen, and pay them the reward, having begun from the last--unto the first.

The word CALL IS NOT an invitation. In the parable, this word is used as a calling to receive payment! In this case, the Righteousness of Christ, who died for them!
The call is actually an invite. You CAN come as I called, but it isn't a command. If it was a command it woud be keleuō, but it isn't, is it?? Same with "many are CALLED, few are CHOSEN".

"Called" in this form is the adj. klētos, and is the same as the noun klēsis and ultimately the shorter form of this is a verb kaleō

Shoot, dont ask me. Ask the scholars who did all that work interpreting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top