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Old 07-15-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,414 posts, read 9,165,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
The scripture says "whosoever believes"

Period. There is no limitation. To say that after death it is "too late" is to say that "whosoever believes" after death will NOT see life. That contradicts the very scripture you quote.
I think it is your opinion that contradicts the scriptures in the OP.

And the term "whosoever" is a volitional word. A choice that is made. Whoever believes will be saved. Where is it written that we can make that choice to be saved after we die.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I think it is your opinion that contradicts the scriptures in the OP.

And the term "whosoever" is a volitional word. A choice that is made. Whoever believes will be saved. Where is it written that we can make that choice to be saved after we die.
Whosoever goes into the city... That encompasses all that enter the city. Does it mean they must choose to go into the city?

I don't see whosoever as a "volitional word." It is a possessive pronoun. All those who believe will be saved...
Does that mean that those who do not believe are not saved? It doesn't say that... it says the wrath of God remains on him....
SO if a person believes (even after life) but does NOT see life then the verse is not correct or you aren't...
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:39 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,844,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Whosoever goes into the city... That encompasses all that enter the city. Does it mean they must choose to go into the city?

I don't see whosoever as a "volitional word." It is a possessive pronoun. All those who believe will be saved...
Does that mean that those who do not believe are not saved? It doesn't say that... it says the wrath of God remains on him....
SO if a person believes (even after life) but does NOT see life then the verse is not correct or you aren't...


Whosoever is not a word that carries an inherant implication that all willl however, it does not carry any implied limits either. So to read John 3:!6 and imply that some won't believe is not correct.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:08 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,409,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

To reject is a choice.
Well than please explain what you believe Paul meant when he wrote ...


Rom 11:28-32
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Here we see that the pharisees and all those Jews who rejected Christ are beloved of God. We see that they Are enemies of the Gospel for the sake of believers. We see that they were concluded in unbelief byGod so that God could have mercy on all people. We see that though they did not believe, they will attain mercy through our mercy.


Please explain ...




Peace ...
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: New England
32,302 posts, read 21,149,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Well than please explain what you believe Paul meant when he wrote ...


Rom 11:28-32
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
If only the Fundy could see that God has concluded all of us in unbelief that He may have mercy upon all, they would see it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Hopefully they would stop boasting that they believe and start shouting from the roof tops "All that i have is because of His mercy and grace"
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:38 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,579,108 times
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Default God will have MERCY on the deceived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If only the Fundy could see that God has concluded all of us in unbelief that He may have mercy upon all, they would see it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Hopefully they would stop boasting that they believe and start shouting from the roof tops "All that i have is because of His mercy and grace"
Another passage to ponder on: Mark 13:21-22 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ/salvation; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 for false Christs (salvation) and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Beware! The enemies are not outsiders, they are within...shouting like roaring lions (Judah's tribal banner/standard)...this is the way...

Therefore...God will have mercy on those (99% of mankind) who are deceived (Father forgive them for they know not what they do).

Revelation 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.


Blessings...
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,494,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Well than please explain what you believe Paul meant when he wrote ...


Rom 11:28-32
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Here we see that the pharisees and all those Jews who rejected Christ are beloved of God. We see that they Are enemies of the Gospel for the sake of believers. We see that they were concluded in unbelief byGod so that God could have mercy on all people. We see that though they did not believe, they will attain mercy through our mercy.


Please explain ...




Peace ...

I've asked before how one can be an "enemy" of God and still loved by God. Nobody answered.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:09 PM
 
5,499 posts, read 4,579,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I've asked before how one can be an "enemy" of God and still loved by God. Nobody answered.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes
How could God have an enemy/enemies when he created all...we can only be our own enemy...

That does make sense...Herefornow?
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,414 posts, read 9,165,392 times
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All very nice words and opinions.

But still no one has provided scripture that says you can accept Christ after death. Perhaps there isn't any.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,414 posts, read 9,165,392 times
Reputation: 13135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Well than please explain what you believe Paul meant when he wrote ...


Rom 11:28-32
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Here we see that the pharisees and all those Jews who rejected Christ are beloved of God. We see that they Are enemies of the Gospel for the sake of believers. We see that they were concluded in unbelief byGod so that God could have mercy on all people. We see that though they did not believe, they will attain mercy through our mercy.


Please explain ...




Peace ...
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

As a Jew I find this section comforting. All Isreal will be saved. But there is the warning. As a Gentile you better toe the line. Yet Paul says even the Jews who were disobediant aer not going to be part of the kingdom unless they repent.

But honestly, where is it written that you can repent after death?
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