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Old 07-22-2010, 10:18 AM
 
621 posts, read 1,053,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
What attitude should I take? If I think folks are going astray, should I just say, oh that's okay. I know you were exposed to the truth but you chose to ignore it. But in the end it just doesn't matter, because we will all be singing Kumbayah around the campfire in heaven some day regardless of what you believe.

Truth and relativism are mutally exclusive. I am not defensive. I am, however, proud of belonging to Jesus's Church and have the peace in knowing that. I just don't understand how protestants can have that same peace because there is always doubt that Luther really screwed up and that their version of Truth may be incorrect because not ONE protestant church or minister has the Jesus given Authority to make the call.

May Christ's peace be with you.
Okie dokie.

EDIT: Okay, never mind - scratch the "okie dokie". Let me ask you a question, Juj. Why does it take so long to become Catholic? The Bible tells us that God was adding to the church daily...all that was required was acceptance of the gospel message of Jesus, repentance, and baptism - that's it. That's what Peter, your first "pope", said in Acts 2. You should read it. So why does the RCC now state that people must go through some long RCIA process and wait until one particular time of year before they can be confirmed within the church and baptized, whereby they will only THEN be allowed to partake of communion?

THAT is only one of the contentions I have with the church. So you tell me...who should I believe - the heirarchy and "early church fathers", or the Bible?

Last edited by shyspider; 07-22-2010 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:32 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,334,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
Okie dokie.

EDIT: Okay, never mind - scratch the "okie dokie". Let me ask you a question, Juj. Why does it take so long to become Catholic? The Bible tells us that God was adding to the church daily...all that was required was acceptance of the gospel message of Jesus, repentance, and baptism - that's it. That's what Peter, your first "pope", said in Acts 2. You should read it. So why does the RCC now state that people must go through some long RCIA process and wait until one particular time of year before they can be confirmed within the church and baptized, whereby they will only THEN be allowed to partake of communion?

THAT is only one of the contentions I have with the church. So you tell me...who should I believe - the heirarchy and "early church fathers", or the Bible?
RCIA is not just for educating, but rather it allows you the time to discern to make sure that coming into the Church is indeed what you want in your heart. How 'bout: Ignorance of doctrine and bad catechesis is ignorance of Christ. Also the Church is 2000 years old. How do you suppose you can teach all that information in an hour?

The truth lies in the Magesterium of the Church because that is where the Authority lies. (1 Timothy 3:15 "if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.") You make the false contention between the hierarchy, Early Church Fathers, and the Bible. I already explained that the Bible doesn't interpret itself so there is no believing in the Bible, but merely an interpretation of it which, of course, varies widely. In addition, the Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church and the contents within are a result of prayer and discernment of Catholic Bishops. The criteria essentially were: 1) Was the document indeed written by said author and did this author have the proper Authority and 2) Is the passage consistent with Catholic Sacred Traditions and teachings. Hence, your premise that the Bible and the Church is on opposite ends of Truth is completely false.

Last edited by juj; 07-22-2010 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
RCIA is not just for educating, but rather it allows you the time to discern to make sure that coming into the Church is indeed what you want in your heart. How 'bout: Ignorance of doctrine and bad catechesis is ignorance of Christ. Also the Church is 2000 years old. How do you suppose you can teach all that information in an hour?

The truth lies in the Magesterium of the Church because that is where the Authority lies. (1 Timothy 3:15 "if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.") You make the false contention between the hierarchy, Early Church Fathers, and the Bible. I already explained that the Bible doesn't interpret itself so there is no believing in the Bible, but merely an interpretation of it which, of course, varies widely. In addition, the Bible was canonized by the Catholic Church and the contents within are a result of prayer and discernment of Catholic Bishops. The criteria essentially were: 1) Was the document indeed written by said author and did this author have the proper Authority and 2) Is the passage consistent with Catholic Sacred Traditions and teachings. Hence, your premise that the Bible and the Church is on opposite ends of Truth is completely false.
Despite my previous contoversial post on this thread, I agree with you.

I'm one individual working out my salvation ( sometimes with fear and trembling ).
Nevertheless, I'm still a member of the Catholic Church. And I willingly submit to her authority.

Sometimes getting all us papists to agree is like herding cats. But at the end of the day, we're still Catholic.
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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Rock on Juj and Oakback!

Shyspyder: Regarding Catholics being a tad defensive on this board. I believe there are far fewer Catholics on this board than protestants and, if you read the posts, you will see the RCC and/or Catholics getting bashed on a regular basis. I apologize if you read any of my posts and they come across as defensive but now you might have an idea why.
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:42 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,053,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
RCIA is not just for educating, but rather it allows you the time to discern to make sure that coming into the Church is indeed what you want in your heart. How 'bout: Ignorance of doctrine and bad catechesis is ignorance of Christ. Also the Church is 2000 years old. How do you suppose you can teach all that information in an hour?
I'm not saying you can. What I AM saying is that it's not necessary to go through a lengthy RCIA process in order for one to become a Christian and partake of communion. Did you read Acts 2, as I mentioned above? Or are you going to say my view of it is just one of multiple interpretations?

As I said before, I'm really not interested in debating theology with you, because you're not going to change my mind or influence me anyway. I'm familiar with everything that you're trying to throw at me. It doesn't faze me.

I will leave this thread with the following statement, which you will no doubt disagree with: You had commented that you didn't understand how peace could be found in any of the Protestant churches. It's found in them because they believe in, and have a relationship with, a person - not an institution.

Take care, Juj. I really do have more important things to be focusing on in my life instead of worrying about whether or not the Catholic church is the true church.
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:52 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,053,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waken2 View Post

Shyspyder: Regarding Catholics being a tad defensive on this board. I believe there are far fewer Catholics on this board than protestants and, if you read the posts, you will see the RCC and/or Catholics getting bashed on a regular basis. I apologize if you read any of my posts and they come across as defensive but now you might have an idea why.
I really don't think that's any excuse, to be honest. It shouldn't matter if you're in the majority or minority - your approach to others should be the same, which is one of turning the other cheek and blessing those who curse you, doing good to those who would harm you, and praying for those who persecute you. And besides, in the Catholic forums I've been in, I've seen a LOT of "protestant bashing" that has taken place.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
I really don't think that's any excuse, to be honest. It shouldn't matter if you're in the majority or minority - your approach to others should be the same, which is one of turning the other cheek and blessing those who curse you, doing good to those who would harm you, and praying for those who persecute you. And besides, in the Catholic forums I've been in, I've seen a LOT of "protestant bashing" that has taken place.
Shyspider,

I completely agree that we who call ourselves Christian should avoid wrangling of words, dissension and the like. We're all guilty of it. We're all human.
But I see that your relativley new to this forum. Trust me when I tell you that if and when the et/ur debate gets boring, the Catholic bashing will return with a vengance.
It kinda why I like the distraction

It doesn't suprise me that "catholic" forums bash protestants
As it wouldn't surprise me that protestant forums bash "catholics"

Birds of a feather you know.

This forum? Well it's controlled anarchy.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:58 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,334,201 times
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Catholics have been pounded by non-catholics for too long thanks in no small part to the actions of two percent of our priests and bishops. We are part of the Church Militant. I will state the facts as I know them and let the good folks decide for themselves. I choose to be the balance to the vast majority of protestant posters who have essentially created their own church and spew their doctrine on the ignorant.
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:56 AM
 
621 posts, read 1,053,250 times
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I'm sorry if I offended anyone by anything I've said. I HATE arguing with people and I HATE theological debates. I've been involved in too much of it in my life - had too many struggles with things I don't understand and can't change, and too much upheaval and unsettledness. I just want some peace. I can't bring myself to accept the validity of all Catholic teachings. But I believe the Lord guides me, and I believe he's showing me NOT to worry about which church to belong to, but rather to place my hope and trust in HIM.

Last edited by shyspider; 07-23-2010 at 07:05 AM..
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyspider View Post
I'm sorry if I offended anyone by anything I've said. I HATE arguing with people and I HATE theological debates. I've been involved in too much of it in my life - had too many struggles with things I don't understand and can't change, and too much upheaval and unsettledness. I just want some peace. I can't bring myself to accept the validity of all Catholic teachings. But I believe the Lord guides me, and I believe he's showing me NOT to worry about which church to belong to, but rather to place my hope and trust in HIM.

Peace
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