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Old 07-16-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,651 posts, read 30,282,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Phazelwood......do you believe in the Trinity or the Godhead? I'm just curious if this discussion that happens ALL the time of whether or not Jesus is God is of any value. I mean, it has been hashed to death and it never gets resolved. Does it really matter? I just don't get it.

God in three persons = Jesus is part of God but not God, right?

I never see the argument that the Holy Spirit is GOD so why all this argument about whether or not Jesus is God?

I'm not saying anything negative towards you Phazelwood, just wondering what you believe about the Trinity and how you see Jesus.
Wrong, Jesus is not part God He IS God.

 
Old 07-16-2010, 03:18 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,845,667 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Phazelwood......do you believe in the Trinity or the Godhead? I'm just curious if this discussion that happens ALL the time of whether or not Jesus is God is of any value. I mean, it has been hashed to death and it never gets resolved. Does it really matter? I just don't get it.

God in three persons = Jesus is part of God but not God, right?

I never see the argument that the Holy Spirit is GOD so why all this argument about whether or not Jesus is God?

I'm not saying anything negative towards you Phazelwood, just wondering what you believe about the Trinity and how you see Jesus.

Hi Ilene,

I understand your intentions.


Here is what scripture seems to tell me. We do not hear Jesus saying he "is" God. But saying he is "equal with" God.

The Jews were offended that Jesus would make such a claim and in fact misunderstood his words and they themselves said things that Jesus did not say.

Jesus also said we will do greater things than him. Does this mean then, we will do greater things than God?

Well, no, it means that we need to see ourselves in the light of what Jesus words amounted to. "Being equal with God"

So no I do not believe in the "Trinity" I believe what the trinity amounts to is a part of the truth and if there now are 3 as "one" then when the first human becomes one with God there will be "4".
 
Old 07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,336,025 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You can go on and on if you like, bottom line is Jesus did not call himself God and no one can produce Jesus words where he called himself God.

People knew what he meant, because Jesus himself said what he meant and I have already shown what Jesus said on the matter so you can go on and on and it won't change that.

I have relied on scripture and have no need of your commentary telling me to believe things Jesus did not say.

This is a different matter than what we can define when it comes to word definitions and usages because in Greek or any translation you cannot produce Jesus own words calling himself God no matter how hard you try.

He said equal WITH God, that's the bottom line of what Jesus said.
You assume everything has to be in the Bible. First mistake.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,024,318 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Hi Ilene,

I understand your intentions.


Here is what scripture seems to tell me. We do not hear Jesus saying he "is" God. But saying he is "equal with" God.

The Jews were offended that Jesus would make such a claim and in fact misunderstood his words and they themselves said things that Jesus did not say.

Jesus also said we will do greater things than him. Does this mean then, we will do greater things than God?

Well, no, it means that we need to see ourselves in the light of what Jesus words amounted to. "Being equal with God"

So no I do not believe in the "Trinity" I believe what the trinity amounts to is a part of the truth and if there now are 3 as "one" then when the first human becomes one with God there will be "4".
Thanks Phazelwood....that's how I see things too. However, I do believe in the Triune nature of God but I do not see in scripture, like you, where Jesus actually IS God. He is part of the system that makes up the "being" who is God, but not God Himself. I don't see why this is so hard for some people to understand.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,024,318 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Wrong, Jesus is not part God He IS God.
I didn't say Jesus is "part God", I said He is part OF God. Big difference.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 03:59 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,845,667 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
You assume everything has to be in the Bible. First mistake.

Well, you are entitled to say what you like, but you have simply overlooked the obvious.

I am not debating that "everything" has to be in the bible, so that comment has no meaning to the issue.

What I said, is that you will not find JESUS saying that He is God.

What we find is a collection of scriptures detailing EXACTLY what JESUS "DID" say on the matter and him saying "I AM GOD" is not one of the things He said.

To equate "Equal WITH God" to "I am God" only proves that you and everyone else that may suggest to me to pay attention to scripture don't actually mean what you say.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 04:13 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,845,667 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Thanks Phazelwood....that's how I see things too. However, I do believe in the Triune nature of God but I do not see in scripture, like you, where Jesus actually IS God. He is part of the system that makes up the "being" who is God, but not God Himself. I don't see why this is so hard for some people to understand.

It is simply how scripture talks of things. There is a nature where entities are in agreement as one with God. I do not see a big problem with seeing things in differing perspectives ialong those lines.

Take care.
 
Old 07-17-2010, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,589,158 times
Reputation: 939
Jesus Christ gave a solemn warning in Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven....
MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Brother's, sister's, friends, there is a place called hell! And, if you continually refuse God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, just as sure as you live and breathe...one day you'll find out for yourselves, that there is such a place! Please don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late! There shall be no escaping it! You've been warned time and time again, and you're hearing it, yet again today! Today is the day of salvation!

For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him.
(Hebrews 2: 3)

Proverbs 27:1 says: "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth."

Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over! The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT.

And ,Revelation 20:15 also says:

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

If you've never received Jesus Christ as your Savior, you can do so, yes at this minute, ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. Don't wait till tomorrow. If you don't know how, you can DM me and so many of the other wonderful saints on here, that I know will be willing to help guide you in the right direction. We're here to help. There's absolutely nothing in it for us; other than, we love you and we care about where you'll spend eternity. Don't wait, the hour is late.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Denise (a.k.a. Betsey)
 
Old 07-17-2010, 04:12 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,268,333 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Jesus Christ gave a solemn warning in Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.... MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Brother's, sister's, friends, there is a place called hell! And, if you continually refuse God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, just as sure as you live and breathe...one day you'll find out for yourselves, that there is such a place! Please don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late! There shall be no escaping it! You've been warned time and time again, and you're hearing it, yet again today! Today is the day of salvation!

For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him. (Hebrews 2: 3)

Proverbs 27:1 says: "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth."

Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over! The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT.

And ,Revelation 20:15 also says:

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

If you've never received Jesus Christ as your Savior, you can do so, yes at this minute, ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. Don't wait till tomorrow. If you don't know how, you can DM me and so many of the other wonderful saints on here, that I know will be willing to help guide you in the right direction. We're here to help. There's absolutely nothing in it for us; other than, we love you and we care about where you'll spend eternity. Don't wait, the hour is late.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Denise (a.k.a. Betsey)
How can you proclaim to be a follower of Jesus when you do the things that do not go along with His teachings? Why must you sow seeds of fear and condemnation? Hell is a place as well as a condition. Just like heaven. If you do not love, you do not get to go to heaven. That includes you, Betsy. If you do not love your fellow humans, without condition, you will find yourself in the very place you fear. Stop controlling and start loving. You have no proof about hell other than what is in your bible. Open your heart and look through God's eyes. I mean really look. If He sent people to hell for all eternity, He would not be merciful nor loving. Is that the kind of God you worship? Pity.

God loves all of His children. He loves the Muslims, the Jews, the Chriatians, the athiests and the sinners. He loves everyone of us. It's people like you Betsy that give others NO HOPE. How do you expect to get to heaven when you ruin souls by telling them they are unloved if they disagree with you or your ideas?

Jesus has been my teacher and brother for quite a while now. He never once said anyone goes to hell for eternity. He never once said that I need to worship Him. He always said to worship our Father. I will not accept Jesus as God. Never. He is my brother, friend, confidant and teacher. Just because something is in the bible, or any other book written by man, does not make it true. We are to seek that still small voice within. Jesus told you to do that in your bible. Why not listen to Him? Why not practice His two commandments and love God and each other? Why do you insist on destroying? You don't have all the answers.
 
Old 07-17-2010, 06:22 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,024,318 times
Reputation: 58210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
It is simply how scripture talks of things. There is a nature where entities are in agreement as one with God. I do not see a big problem with seeing things in differing perspectives ialong those lines.

Take care.
Amen!
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