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Old 07-20-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
Reputation: 16370

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
For ET to be true then men must be immortal. No where in the scriptures does it teach that men or angels are created immortal. On the contrary Lord Jesus says that only HE HIMSELF IS IMMORTAL.

1 Tim 6-15 - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16. Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Men and angels cannot be created immortal. To be immortal a man must have infinite energy and power. To have infinite energy and power, a man must not have boundaries. To have no boundaries, a man must share the same space with God. This cannot be.

Man is finite. His body is finite, his spirit is also finite. A man’s spirit exist inside his finite body. A man’s body can only exist inside God.

Acts 17:28 - For in him we live, and move, and have our being;

If man is immortal, then we can exist, live and power ourselves without God. But The Lord Jesus says without him (His power) we can do nothing. Whether on earth on in heaven, He will be the One constantly supplying the power to keep us alive. Just like the vine supplying water and nutrients to keep the branches alive.

John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing


Immortality of human being is taught by the ancient Egyptians and Plato. Not by the Holy Spirit. Thus ET is a false teaching.
To the contrary.

Matthew 10:28 shows that the soul survives the death of the body.

Luke 16:19-31 shows both the believer and unbeliever in hades.

In Luke 23:43 Jesus tells the thief that he will be with Him in paradise that very day.

Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4 show the souls of the Tribulational martyrs in heaven during the Tribulation.

In 2 Peter 1:13-15, Peter speaks of his body as an earthly dwelling which he is about to lay aside and depart from. He says ''...as long as I am in this earthly dwelling...'', He refers to his real self as 'I', and his body as the earthly dwelling in which the 'I' resides in while on this earth.

In 2 Corinthians 5:8-9 Paul speaks of being absent from the body and face to face with the Lord.

And both 1Thes 5:23 and Heb 4:12 make it clear that man consists of body, soul, and spirit.

1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of the joints and the marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

In Gen 35:18 Rachel's soul is said to be departing because she had died. 'Departing' is the Hebrew word 'Yatsa'. Strong's number H3318, and means 'to go or come out'.

The soul which is the real person continues to exist after the body has died.

As for the human spirit, in Acts 7:59, Stephen, who was in the process of being stoned to death , '...called upon the Lord and said, ''Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!''
Angels are immortal. They were created before the creation of the world. Job 38:4-7 and they exist throughout all eternity future.

Revelation 20:10 plainly states that Satan will be tormented forever along with the beast and the false prophet. To be tormented requires the one who is tormented to be both alive and conscious.

Regarding 1 Tim 6:16...

Excerpt:
Quote:
In addition to the verses used by annihilationists, the primary Biblical text for conditional immortality is 1 Timothy 6:16, which teaches that only God is immortal (and therefore humans are not). However, God has other attributes that are based upon Him alone that He has imparted to man, for example wisdom (Romans 16:27).
http://www.valleybible.net/Adults/Cl...diateState.pdf

The Bible is clear that the fate of the unbeliever is eternal torment in the lake of fire. Matthew 25:41,46; Revelation 20:10; 11-15 are just a few of the passages which show this to be true.


The word 'destruction' is 'Apollumi'. Strong's number G622, and does not mean cessation of existence. It means to to 'ruin utterly' and 'eternal uselessness'.

Annhilationism and universalism are two false doctrines which are adhered to by many who can not stomach the reality of what the Bible teaches concerning hell. But reality is what it is. And the reality is that the unbeliever will exist eternally in hell in torment.

Final comment on this subject on this thread.

 
Old 07-20-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 7,018,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Exactly. I never stop wondering what motivates them to convince others to reject it.
Fundamentalist Translation: "Believe in eternal hell or you will not be saved."
"Salvation is all about avoiding hell."
 
Old 07-20-2010, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,368,929 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Fundamentalist Translation: "Believe in eternal hell or you will not be saved."
"Salvation is all about avoiding hell."
Yes, it does in fact seem that one MUST believe in hell in order to go to heaven.

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 07-20-2010, 02:21 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,761,215 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Fundamentalist Translation: "Believe in eternal hell or you will not be saved."
"Salvation is all about avoiding hell."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Yes, it does in fact seem that one MUST believe in hell in order to go to heaven.

Blessings,
brian

Interesting that the concept of ET and even Hell itself is completely missing from the apostles creed ...
 
Old 07-20-2010, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,368,929 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Interesting that the concept of ET and even Hell itself is completely missing from the apostles creed ...
Or that Paul, in preaching the "whole gospel," didn't mention hell once!

Blessings,
brian
 
Old 07-20-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 6,440,687 times
Reputation: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Or that Paul, in preaching the "whole gospel," didn't mention hell once!

Blessings,
brian
But Jesus Himself did, how many times? How much is YOUR enough?
 
Old 07-20-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 6,440,687 times
Reputation: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Interesting that the concept of ET and even Hell itself is completely missing from the apostles creed ...
Yes, that's what JESUS HIMSELF TEACHES! Yet, it's okay to UR'll, who's teachings bypasses JESUS HIMSELF!!

Yesss.....the pot is indeed black.
 
Old 07-20-2010, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 4,194,803 times
Reputation: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewitness View Post
Compartmentalizing humanity like some masonic beehive makes perfect sense only to those who think they have a planned escape route...whatever you think numerical mick...you are. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...

Hive mentality?
 
Old 07-20-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 6,440,687 times
Reputation: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Interesting that the concept of ET and even Hell itself is completely missing from the apostles creed ...

Just admit it.....JESUS SAVES! AND, He SAVE us from something. AND, that "something" has a name. And, it's name is HELL! Eternal separation from His presence....PERIOD!!
 
Old 07-20-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,368,929 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
But Jesus Himself did, how many times? How much is YOUR enough?
I don't deny that Jesus talked about punishment/torment. Personally, I don't think what He was referring to was anything like what you might have in mind.
Also, Jesus had MANY things to tell the disciples which they were not ready to hear. Peter learned one of them, imo: "what the Lord hath cleansed, call not thou unclean."

If there will be any judgement, it's not for us to determine who will receive what. And it just may start with you, Betsey.

Just a thought.

Blessings,
brian
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