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Old 07-19-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,169,509 times
Reputation: 1308

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Very good verse!
In fact, Paul was a chosen vessel. Many are not chosen. It's not their fault. If someone doesn't have faith, is it their fault?

Blessings,
brian
Jesus says yes.

Luke 12:47
". But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. "

Mark 16:16
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Verses like that do not have Jesus saying... "but whoever does not believe will be condemned, unless you haven't heard"

Either you are seen by God
  1. as righteous, does what is right, one that is out from under law,
  2. or one that is unrighteous, does what is evil, one is that under the law.

 
Old 07-19-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,169,509 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Very good verse!
In fact, Paul was a chosen vessel. Many are not chosen. It's not their fault. If someone doesn't have faith, is it their fault?

Blessings,
brian
Jesus says yes.

Luke 12:47
". But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. "

Mark 16:16
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Verses like that do not have Jesus saying... "but whoever does not believe will be condemned, unless you haven't heard"

Either you are seen by God and will be judged by that standard
  1. as righteous, does what is right, one that is out from under law,
  2. or one that is unrighteous, does what is evil, one is that under the law.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.


John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life


Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."


** "All the prophets" is a direct reference to OT prophets. Jesus has always been the focus of all scripture***
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:05 PM
 
7,812 posts, read 10,704,138 times
Reputation: 3443
Default The "battle of the Bible passages"

Seems everyone has a bible passage to support what they believe, or so it seems to June. Heck, even an atheist could find a bible passage to support her point, but she has lost all desire to do so, as there doesn't seem to be any point in doing so.

The following exchanges struck June though, for some reason. Especially ahigherway's question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcams
Since when has the good news been you better believe or you are going to get it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post

If someone doesn't have faith, is it their fault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post

Jesus says yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
"neither do i condemn you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps

WHO IS HE ???????

It's the last post, quoted above, that was initially intriguing to June within the context of the OP. --But sadly, she has to admit that it no longer is....Because while it happened to be the very question in her mind when she first began reading and posting in this thread, she doesn't see any point in her continuing to wonder, or to ask. If June has no faith (through no fault of her own) then it looks like June has her answer.

She's just not sure in what ways you all truly know who He is.

~Or how much you condemn me, despite that.


Take gentle care.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-19-2010 at 05:26 PM..
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:14 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,107,899 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Seems everyone has a bible passage to support what they believe, or so it seems to June. Heck, even an atheist could find a bible passage to support her point, but she has lost all desire to do so, as there doesn't seem to be any point in doing so.

The following exchanges struck June though, for some reason. Especially ahigherway's question...













It's the last post, quoted above, that was initially intriguing to June within the context of the OP. --But sadly, she has to admit that it no longer is....Because while It happened to be the very question in her mind when she first began reading and posting in this thread, she doesn't see any point in her continuing to wonder, or to ask. If June has no faith (through no fault of her own) then it looks like June has her answer.

She's just not sure in what ways you all truly know who He is.

~Or how much you condemn me, despite that.


Take gentle care.

June you are not condemned by Jesus , myself or anyone whose faith is in Jesus.

No one can force you to believe , nor condemn you into believing . I do know that you have an open heart , i also know He opens hearts as well as the eyes of the blind , i trust the Lord that your questions will be answered . The answer to the question who is He ? , is He's the Savior of the world.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,169,509 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This response proves the point i was making in my last post . Your focus, conversation , and message is on everything but the good news .

Like i said in my previous post if eternal torment was remotely true i would still be at odds with you because YOUR message is not the good news .

The good news is God demonstrated His love to us while we were yet sinners.

Fundamental christianity's message is about sin, death and condemnation , the good news (not UR) is about Jesus our Savior who came that we may have life and have it more abundantly.

It's Behold the lamb of God and not what fundamental christianity teaches , behold your sin , behold the judgement of God , behold Eternal Torment , behold the condemnation of God , behold the wrath of God, behold the vengance of God, behold the lake of fire .

No one to my knowledge who believes in UR is rejecting scripture , what is being rejected is the interpretation of it by fundamental christianity.

Fundamental christianity is not of God
pcamps,
I certianly hope that the message "behold your sin , behold the judgement of God , behold Eternal Torment , behold the condemnation of God , behold the wrath of God, behold the vengance of God, behold the lake of fire ." is never = to good news!

Because it's NOT !!!

If you would take as much time unbiasly reading God's word, as defending an a position that is rejecting scripture, you would find a pattern. That pattern is: law then gospel. That isn't a "interpetation".

It's not...
  • hippie love so not to make people feel bad
  • a water down, generic "God" that Jesus becomes a messenger of "all paths lead to heaven"
  • gospel then more gospel and no law.
"Through the law we become conscious of sin." Romans 3:20

Without the law being spoken and confronting the wicked with, no one will "become conscious of sin" .

Without a conscious of sin Romans 3:20,leaves a person without a consciousfor a Savior.

It would be well to re-evaluate your knowledge about what UR.
By UR denying the need to confront the sinner with the law, ultamitly it denies the need for a Savior.

Read that very carefully....Though UR uses clever arguments that doesn't deny a "Savior", it ultimatly denys the need for a savior.

As June put...[IF] the UR God does exist, there would have been no reason to "bannish" Adam & Eve, Cain being afraid after he killed Abel, Noah's ark, the destruction of Sodum and Gohmorrah, issuing the 10 commandments to Moses, wandering in the desert 40 years, forbidding David to build the temple, Elijah killing the false prophets of Baal, the 10 northern tribes being eliminated......

Jesus warning Capernanum they will suffer more than Sodum and Gohmorrah, Jesus warning the pharisee's, the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus comparing the end of the world to the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus contrasting eternal life with eternal death.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:27 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,107,899 times
Reputation: 2274
What part twin do you not understand that the issue is not one of UR or ET , it's one of the good news and the message you believe .

I have already said twice to you , if ET was true i would still be at odds with you , because fundamental christianity preaches the problem and not the answer which is Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

Fundamental christianity is laboring and striving to destroy this trustworthy saying.

Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lordís disciples
Why do you not read through your posts and see how negatively opposite they are to what Paul admonished Timothy , even if ET is true this is what we should be laboring and striving for , to be ambassadors of the Lord for men to be reconciled to the Living God who is the Savior of all men . Your message consists of nothing that resembles this , it consists of the wrath to come, judgement to come , death and eternal torment for the unbeliever , none of this is the gospel as much as you would like to think it is.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:29 PM
 
7,812 posts, read 10,704,138 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
As June put...[IF] the UR God does exist, there would have been no reason to "bannish" Adam & Eve

June is assuming this was written with some degree of error, as June was not asking specifically about a "UR God" or an "ET God."

She was simply asking....
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:31 PM
 
7,812 posts, read 10,704,138 times
Reputation: 3443
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
June you are not condemned by Jesus , myself or anyone whose faith is in Jesus.
June thanks you, my friend.
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:36 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,170,566 times
Reputation: 2103
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post

It's the last post, quoted above, that was initially intriguing to June within the context of the OP. --But sadly, she has to admit that it no longer is....Because while it happened to be the very question in her mind when she first began reading and posting in this thread, she doesn't see any point in her continuing to wonder, or to ask. If June has no faith (through no fault of her own) then it looks like June has her answer.

She's just not sure in what ways you all truly know who He is.
No one seems to want to touch that question, do they?
 
Old 07-19-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,107,899 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
No one seems to want to touch that question, do they?
Hey Pleroo

It's simple by faith in the one who opens our heart.

14And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul

The samaritan woman at the well is another example.

Theirs an appointed time for us all to believe .
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