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Will everyone, in the end, be born of the Spirit, come to faith in Christ, and enter the Kingdom? The question i ask you, since you consider yourself one, why is it that UR focuses on this rebirth apart from and outside the bounds of biological life?
It cannot be otherwise. Birth implies embryonic development (this physical life of flesh) . . . and then rebirth as Spirit.
John 3:5-8 (King James Version)
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. No flesh can possibly fit that description . . . so to claim rebirth while still in the flesh is to claim "nonsense" . . . whether you take offense to it or not.
This is the purpose of baptism of the Holy Spirit . . . to be reborn after death as Spirit. Romans 6:4 (King James Version)
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
The Holy Spirit within us guides our embryo souls to develop properly within the "water of life" that surrounds our brain. THAT is the "water of life" referred to that is within us (no magic involved).
I believe you are referring to 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (the test by fire). It is not about wicked dead who are tested in the fire, it is the works of the believeres. It is about rewarding the believers. The unbelievers will not undergo this test. See below where is talks about people who build upon the foundation of Christ. The message is simple: you are saved through faith alone, but there are additional rewards for those who have faith and works. Unbelievers however do not build on the foundation of Christ, so this passage is not about them. And if you read the whole chapter you will learn that he is talking to believers only. It is imporant to read the Bible in context.
Yes, only believers can build upon the foundation of Christ. The unbelievers need to receive God's gift of faith before believing.
I don't think UR places it's focus in the after life. What I think most UR's would say is that the work of the Spirit does not necessarily have to end for anyone this side of death. Where does it say that the Spirit cannot regenerate the lost after death? Although the scriptures may appear to be silent, or at least not deal directly head on with the subject, there are scriptures that would lead one to believe that the Spirit can and does regenerate after death. Consider the following scriptures that would lead us in that direction:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
The Spirit is not limited as to where, or when, he regenerates the dead to spiritual life. He regenerates according to His will, not ours, and according to where and when He chooses, not where or when we choose. Right?
Joh 5:25 `Verily, verily, I say to you--There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live;
Joh 5:28 `Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Here, Jesus states that those in the tombs shall hear His voice. And those having heard shall live. Are you saying that the Spirit cannot regenerate those that hear the voice of the Son of God? If not, how are these dead brought to life?
1Pe 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer--righteous for unrighteous--that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,
1Pe 3:19 in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,
1Pe 4:6 for for this also to dead men was good news proclaimed, that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in the flesh, and may live according to God in the spirit.
This would seem to indicate that the proclamation of the Gospel was given by Christ to those who had already died. And Jesus did so that "that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in the flesh, and may live according to God in the spirit."
Those scriptures would seem to indicate that the Spirit can and does regenerate after death, right?
Actually IMO, no. The purpose of Christ's salvation effort was to glorify His Father, to do His will and finish His work. Our salvation is the by product of Jesus' faithfulness in keeping His Father's will. It's the faith of Jesus that Paul spoke of in Romans that justifies us before God.
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith to them, `My food is, that I may do the will of Him who sent me, and may finish His work;
Joh 6:38 because I have come down out of the heaven, not that I may do my will, but the will of Him who sent me.
And the by product of Jesus' faithfulness is our salvation. It's application is twofold, all those that are given to Christ as well as all believers:
Joh 6:39 `And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that He hath given to me I may not lose of it, but may raise it up in the last day;
Joh 6:40 and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.'
And what has been given to Christ from His Father:
Joh 3:35 the Father doth love the Son, and all things hath given into his hand;
All things! Is there any reason to doubt that the Spirit will not regenerate all to life, considering that the Father has put all things into Jesus' hands?
Your post was long and had too much to respond to. So, before going further, I would like to get your feedback on this portion.
As always, thanks for taking time out to discuss.
A.S. I like Eze. 37
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, 2And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 4Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 7So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Yes, there is no such thing as a fire which burns unbelievers into belief.
Yes; God is a Giver. And He will give faith to man when He decides; not all are being called at this time. Man is impatient, God has another timetable!
I believe you are referring to 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (the test by fire). It is not about wicked dead who are tested in the fire, it is the works of the believeres. It is about rewarding the believers. The unbelievers will not undergo this test. See below where is talks about people who build upon the foundation of Christ. The message is simple: you are saved through faith alone, but there are additional rewards for those who have faith and works. Unbelievers however do not build on the foundation of Christ, so this passage is not about them. And if you read the whole chapter you will learn that he is talking to believers only. It is imporant to read the Bible in context.
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
It seems you are inferring the idea that Paul is only speaking of believers ... The language here is the same as the language in revelations concerning the judgment of the dead, the judgment of works.
Even if Paul was referring only to believers(which he never stipulates in the text), those that did not have Good works would then be wicked servants ... And Christ tells us that the wicked servants will have their portion allotted with unbelievers.
It is the traditions of the church that make your claim, and not the text.
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