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Old 07-26-2010, 12:02 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 456,716 times
Reputation: 386

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I think it's ok to refer back to a person's other posts if it's a firm stand they've taken. Maybe if they made a comment in passing it gets trivial. But, for example, Verna has made it clear that she believes God hates sinners and only loves believers/non-sinners. I referred to that in my previous post, and I think that's ok.
Some of my mistakes have been posting in controversial threads (UR/ET) and putting into a post to one person the confusion of other peoples beliefs and getting them confused -- to me even now even though I understand a bit of how it has evolved, that all of the differing doctrines is confusing, and I can relate to those who do not understand UR because they are trying to listen to too much at one time, understanding scripture is spiritual and those attending a baptist church will hear baptist doctrine, same with RCC, JW, morman, there is preterist, futurist, calvinist, etc, etc ........... confusing
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,649,138 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Thanks for explaining this Meerkat. That is what I was referring to. I will go back and look at Verna's OP and see exactly what it says. Consider me duly chastised.

Heartsong


Oh boy...now I'm feeling bad about the "chastising" Heartsong. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.


Bud
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:16 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 456,716 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Oh boy...now I'm feeling bad about the "chastising" Heartsong. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.


Bud
Bud .... you have a good heart and a "wicked" sense of humour too
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:17 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 456,716 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Oh boy...now I'm feeling bad about the "chastising" Heartsong. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.


Bud
and no more physical reps for you ... consider yourself "spiritually" repped
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,574,939 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Oh boy...now I'm feeling bad about the "chastising" Heartsong. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.


Bud
My feelings? No. Not at all. I'm not easily offended. I think sometimes we read attitudes into posts that are not actually there, but that is the problem with the internet - it is like trying to talk to someone through a soundproof window (sort of). Even with a soundproof window, you could see the expression on a person's face (which is why we have the little smiley emoticons - to try to help us communicate).

I'm not offended by anyone on this forum. Astonished, often, but not offended. I pray that God will work to bring us all to the knowledge of the truth to a full understanding of the riches we have in Jesus Christ. With all my heart, I am trying to take away the obstacles that keep God's children from entering into the river of His mercy.

Peace -
Heartsong
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,001 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
My feelings? No. Not at all. I'm not easily offended. I think sometimes we read attitudes into posts that are not actually there, but that is the problem with the internet - it is like trying to talk to someone through a soundproof window (sort of). Even with a soundproof window, you could see the expression on a person's face (which is why we have the little smiley emoticons - to try to help us communicate).

I'm not offended by anyone on this forum. Astonished, often, but not offended. I pray that God will work to bring us all to the knowledge of the truth to a full understanding of the riches we have in Jesus Christ. With all my heart, I am trying to take away the obstacles that keep God's children from entering into the river of His mercy.

Peace -
Heartsong
That's why I use smilies, though I do feel somewhat silly for doing so. I truly think it helps. I tend to be the kind of person that gets all excited and underlines, caps, and bolds, so I throw those in there to show I'm not angry or whatever.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,240,149 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Verna, what do you think happens to people who "receive Jesus with a pure heart - just the beginning of the process of working out their salvation with fear and trembling" and then die before "becoming born again - which takes time."
BHfT, I can picture this person standing before God...Him knowing All things...taking all things into consideration, will be a just and fair God in His judgement.

Can you see the difference in one who has asked God with a pure heart to come into them...only to continually sin and sin and sin...the same sins over and over again...days and months and years on end...never growing, then dieing in that sin...
...and one who receives Jesus into their heart, and genuinely learns and grows daily through their trials and temptations...learning and maturing...then dies before they have been born-again...?...
...and then there is the one who never does receive Jesus into their heart...never going forth in a process of working out their OWN! salvation...never coming anywhere close to that "place" of being born-again before they die...?

If even I can see the difference in the attempts of the soul...I am sure God does!...He knows the heart of the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
You say that "until one has reached that point in their process, they are not born again." I think you are getting confused about the difference between first knowing God, and then becoming spiritually mature.
...then you explain it to me, the difference, as you see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
The other point I'd like to make is that in your OP, I appreciate the way you look at people's faces and see their needs, etc. I'm like that, too.
o.k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
The problem I have with your beliefs is that you apparently give yourself much more credit than God for having love and mercy.
How have I done this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
You talk as if it breaks your heart to think of any of these people not being saved, but you can't do anything about it because it's ultimately out of your hands.
...it does break my heart...you just said that you appreciated the way I feel for them and try to see their needs...?...you didn't really mean that did you...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
However, God can do something about it and you seem to think He won't.
...really...? and where did I ever say this...?...have I not been clear in stating that He is faithful...and waiting for those who will...to come...?...forever waiting..that is until He quits waiting..which a time will come when He stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
Don't you think it breaks His heart?
I sure do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHfT
Maybe not since you've accused God of hating these SAME people who you claim to LOVE!!! This seems to elevate yourself above God, IMO.
...so not true BHfT...so not true. Everyone is judged upon the light they have...and that is God's place. But you and those of you who post on this forum...you have been given the light of truth...the WHOLE! truth, and you will be judged accordingly as well. You've heard it...over and over again...and you will accept it or reject it...and will be judged acordingly.

In Christ's love...prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,240,149 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Verna,

Verna,

I have said nothing about agreeing with heartsong or disagreeing - I was pointing out to her that she was putting everything that you have ever said into her one post to you

She might have sounded angry in her post to you .... but you sound angry in your post to me .... is that because in the past I have said that I believe in UR ...... or is it because I have said that I do not keep the sabbath as physical Saturday ordinance.......

I personally feel that we enter into the sabbath by belief and faith which is also about faithfulness , and that the physical sabbath was for the Israelites, and it was a symbol of the Spirit which is fulfilled in Christ.

I am not labelling you as anything I am just trying to acknowledge that you do believe that keeping the sabbath is the sign of someone who is born again and saved and will not perish.........

I do agree with you that we are to keep His commandments which I understand to be Love God and love our neighbour as ourselves, and believe that just in case we do not know who our neighbours are we are also told to love our enemies.

I do love you Verna even though in the seventh day sabbath we disagree about what it means, and we also do not agree on the nature or purpose of resurrection .........
I have come to expect understanding and love from you...and that is your fault...Heartsong has done nothing that resembles understanding and love towards me...two different people with two different attitudes...

Just forget it...I love you too....and you know it. I pray you come to understand God's truth about the commandments...I want you there in heaven with me............

In Christ's love,
Verna.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,574,939 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Heartsong has done nothing that resembles understanding and love towards me...two different people with two different attitudes...

Verna.
Verna,

I just don't understand you and I disagree on a number of your personal beliefs. If you find that "unloving" - what can I do, really? You are a very sensitive soul as far as I can tell - but also quick to condemn those who disagree with you. But I don't think any of us can easily help "where we are" spiritually. As Jesus asked, can a leopard change its spots? Obviously the answer is no. And Jesus also said we could not add one cubit to our stature. So we are all in need of God's mercy. Without him we can do nothing (to grow spiritually).

Heartsong
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:43 AM
 
Location: West Coast USA
1,577 posts, read 1,783,456 times
Reputation: 3134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
MISSING THE MARK?
When the question of sin comes up Christian teachers are quick to point
out that sin has to do with "missing the mark".

The Greek word Sin hamartia (G264) is derived from the root word
hamartanō (G266) which historically was an archers term that means to
"miss the mark" . (See definitons below):

[With that in mind, Modern Christianity in an attempt to trivialize
willful sin often says something like this]:

"Therefore to sin merely means to miss the mark; which seems to be a
small thing since nobody hits the mark every time - right? After all
nobody is perfect."
Wow. I never heard it said in such a way. Interesting.

Throughout most of my life, I was taught a very limited idea of sin: such ideas as theft, lying, murder, disagreeing with a pastor, and such were the definitions, along with knowing to do good and not doing it.

Later, I heard that sin was often "missing the mark." That snapped me to attention. Just missing the mark was enough to be sin?

Rather than your
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
[font=Georgia]"Therefore to sin merely means to miss the mark; which seems to be a
small thing since nobody hits the mark every time - right? After all
nobody is perfect."
I learned this:

"To sin means to miss the mark." There was no addendum that it was "merely" or that sin was "a
small thing since nobody hits the mark every time - right? After all
nobody is perfect." "Missing the mark," I was taught, is a very serious problem that should leave me trembling before The Almighty G-d.

The persons I know personally who most clearly demonstrated to me that many "miss the mark" were people who actually claimed that they never did -- that they never sinned. In fact, they looked down upon me because I admitted that I am not perfect and that I do sometimes "miss the mark."
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